Do You Have a Secret to Getting People to Take Your Money?

[Shaneesprit]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

One of the reasons many cruisers do their own work is because it's more work getting someone to do it than doing it yourself. Add to that they dont stay on schedule and only take the gravy, high pay jobs.

It's even worse right now with everyone employed if they want to be.

I couldn't find someone to rake my yard for $20 an hour last year.

My handyman neighbor/musician/carpenter is doing odd jobs that last 1-2 weeks at $60 an hour. It's 1.5 hours away and he's being paid for travel time and time to buy stuff at the lumberyard also.

If you want it done you better put up a sign at the marina requesting someone for $60-75 an hour.
"Those damn immigrants are taking our jobs!" ha ha , that's funny...

Sounds like you have the same problems as the UK foreigners did take the jobs, the companies took the cheaper labour, then companies stopped training apprentices because they didn’t need them!
So everyone started to go to university.
Now well we find ourselves with a huge skills shortage, and wages for skilled staff have more than doubled.
While it’s great for me, didn’t do very well at school but now earning more than 3 x what I even thought was possible even taking inflation into account, in no way do I consider myself rich.
problem is that it’s not working out so well for the younger generation, and those with the money are complaining of the price it costs to get anything done.

My point is not against immigration, not at all. It’s those that have benefited from paying the lower wage and are now paying the real price. Of not training the next generation.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by rsementi

I’m a big fan of the virtues of capitalism too. Probably more than you are.

But we really don’t have capitalism in the US anymore. I’d estimate that today, we are mostly a socialist economy. More than ever. The supply of dollars are incredibly inflated over the supply of goods and services. Supply vs Demand are fundamental realities that occur in any system of economics. In a free capitalist system, like Hong Kong once was up until recently, shows the beauty of Supply and Demand when it’s not interfered with or coerced by government. Prices become lower, supplies become larger, on every level. Prosperity and human flourishing grows.

But if you look at the pattern of any economy that moves in the direction of socialism, it always faces the consequences all goods and services declining or draining by the demand of the population. And it never catches up. The more severe the implementation of socialism, the longer are the lines of people waiting to buy gas, food or skilled labor. This happens before the collapse of a nation’s currency. You’ll see.

I don't think it's useful to take this much further, but you are making statements without evidence. There are LOTS of countries far further along the socialist scale, and most do not exhibit your claimed outcomes. Just look at, well, just about any other developed nation. Almost all are more "socialist" than the USA (not that I disagree that the US also exhibits plenty of "socialist" tendencies ... no functioning state exists with them).

The issues the OP faces appears to come down to not being able to get the work he wants done, in the time and at the price he wants. If you want to apply an economic argument to explain why, then the answer is that this is a market problem -- or rather, it is the market operating as it is designed.

Personally, I think there are other issues at play here, as I mentioned earlier. But from an economic perspective, this appears to be a market operating as intended.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Shaneesprit

Sounds like you have the same problems as the UK foreigners did take the jobs, the companies took the cheaper labour, then companies stopped training apprentices because they didn’t need them!
So everyone started to go to university.
Now well we find ourselves with a huge skills shortage, and wages for skilled staff have more than doubled.
While it’s great for me, didn’t do very well at school but now earning more than 3 x what I even thought was possible even taking inflation into account, in no way do I consider myself rich.
problem is that it’s not working out so well for the younger generation, and those with the money are complaining of the price it costs to get anything done.

My point is not against immigration, not at all. It’s those that have benefited from paying the lower wage and are now paying the real price. Of not training the next generation.

Yeah, maybe for unskilled jobs.
Interestingly though, everyone was making noise about a $15 minimum wage just a couple years ago...... haha ... That has gone away entirely at this point. People flipping burgers are making more than that... They learned during Covid they dont want to work for nothing any more. Especially when a 325 sq ft house is $400k! Foreign corporations are buying US homes by the hundreds. Now citizens can't afford a home. Mexico had it right: Require 51% citizen ownership.

[Tetepare]

OP is looking for skilled labor. In USA starting about 1980 we were told the trades were dead. You had to go to college. So most did. And as a result we no longer have skilled trades, but plenty of MBAs and therapists.

Everyone I know in skilled trades is full up. They name their price and pick their customers.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Tetepare

OP is looking for skilled labor. In USA starting about 1980 we were told the trades were dead. You had to go to college. So most did. And as a result we no longer have skilled trades, but plenty of MBAs and therapists.

Everyone I know in skilled trades is full up. They name their price and pick their customers.

Exactly... supply-demand; with financial maximization as the objective. If there's a scarcity of supply, prices go up and the sought-after product or service becomes harder to get. It's just basic capitalist market economics.

[Allied39]

One of the things I noticed when in the marine repair business is that if I wanted a lawyer, ten minutes on the phone I could have a dozen (although just saying the word brings bile to my throat), the same with a dentist, an accountant, etc etc etc.

If they needed my skill....there was one....me. The the affore mentioned charge significant hourly rates. I felt no remorse about returning the favor.

First thing I would ask a new client "what is it you do?' Some answers had me turning my head to hide the grin as I thought "wrong answer"

And that was a while back now. You can all blather on about the why of it all, does not change the reality of it is what it is.....and it isnt going to change.

[Tetepare]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Exactly... supply-demand; with financial maximization as the objective. If there's a scarcity of supply, prices go up and the sought-after product or service becomes harder to get. It's just basic capitalist market economics.

I didn’t say that. In fact, those in trades I know, whether welders, woodworkers, auto shops, or marinas keep their prices reasonable, as much as possible. All being at full capacity, their selection process is largely based on the potential client. It’s very simple- they like you, you’re in the front of the line. They don’t like you, they don’t take your job or they fire you.

Nobody i know in the trades maximizes profit. They started as apprentices, they know paycheck to paycheck. If they have to satisfy a good client they work overtime- often the business owner being the one to do it.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Tetepare

I didn’t say that. In fact, those in trades I know, whether welders, woodworkers, auto shops, or marinas keep their prices reasonable, as much as possible. All being at full capacity, their selection process is largely based on the potential client. It’s very simple- they like you, you’re in the front of the line. They don’t like you, they don’t take your job or they fire you.

Nobody i know in the trades maximizes profit. They started as apprentices, they know paycheck to paycheck. If they have to satisfy a good client they work overtime- often the business owner being the one to do it.

And who do they like? People who they can make high profit from, or people who bring in low-profit jobs?

Of course, this is not the only factor at play, and the more personal the transaction, the more other issues come in. This is why I made my suggestions to the OP in the first place -- issues around becoming part of the community, instead of remaining outsider.

But all business, be it a small owner-operator or a large corporation, seek to maximize profit. It's capitalism, and there's nothing wrong with that .

[Lake-Effect]

We hear often of the shortage of good marine tradespeople... but I just ran into one of the area's most competent marine electrical guys, and he's now working full-time on the floor at a chandlery, with some electrical clients as well, mostly through the store. Why? Because of our dead winter season, he can't survive on what he earns working his ass off during the 7 or 8 months of boat work.

I trained up and got certified with the desire to work part-time in marine electrical as a retirement 'career', but with all the commitments required (incorporate, truck, tools, insurance) and then I hear stories like the above... I'm just gonna help friends and that's it.

[Madehn]

Buy the stuff needed to do the job
Be there to help put it together
Their schedule for timing is the priority
BE NICE
acknowledge their expertise
Pay cash off the books
Look for shops that work with the materials but may not normally do marine stuff (My arch dingy crane and Bimini frames were all made by a shop that normally makes SS COMMERCIAL kitchens. ) owner was intrigued by helping a world voyager.
Keep all drama out of it and always be positive.

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by rsementi

I’m a big fan of the virtues of capitalism too. Probably more than you are.

But we really don’t have capitalism in the US anymore. I’d estimate that today, we are mostly a socialist economy. More than ever. The supply of dollars are incredibly inflated over the supply of goods and services. Supply vs Demand are fundamental realities that occur in any system of economics. In a free capitalist system, like Hong Kong once was up until recently, shows the beauty of Supply and Demand when it’s not interfered with or coerced by government. Prices become lower, supplies become larger, on every level. Prosperity and human flourishing grows.

But if you look at the pattern of any economy that moves in the direction of socialism, it always faces the consequences all goods and services declining or draining by the demand of the population. And it never catches up. The more severe the implementation of socialism, the longer are the lines of people waiting to buy gas, food or skilled labor. This happens before the collapse of a nation’s currency. You’ll see.

Another right wing political-economic rant when the guy is just trying to find a welder. Some people just have to poop in the water...

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by Tetepare

In USA starting about 1980 we were told the trades were dead. You had to go to college. So most did. And as a result we no longer have skilled trades, but plenty of MBAs and therapists.

Another wonderful theory that supports the poster's biases, but it just flat wrong. About 35% of Americans have a college degree. Fewer than half of that have a master's degree. That is not "most".

And who is the "we were told"? I never heard that. What I heard was that if you wanted to maximize lifetime income, get a bachelor's degree. That was true and correct.

The underlying reason for the larger problem here is the relentless relative increase in labor costs. This is why businesses expend enormous amounts of money to automate factories. People want cheap stuff. The only way to make cheap stuff is to have machines make it. You can buy a 32 inch flat screen TV now for less than $175. Try to find a shop to fix it for less than $175 when it breaks and you are out of luck. In fact, you probably can't find anyone to fix it at any price, because it is cheaper to buy a new one.

[jeanathon]

Originally Posted by lestersails

Some people just have to poop in the water...

Well at least you tell us what you are doing before hand.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

We hear often of the shortage of good marine tradespeople... but I just ran into one of the area's most competent marine electrical guys, and he's now working full-time on the floor at a chandlery, with some electrical clients as well, mostly through the store. Why? Because of our dead winter season, he can't survive on what he earns working his ass off during the 7 or 8 months of boat work.

K is a terrific guy, a good friend and I constantly refer work to him (which he occasionally takes). He could easily establish himself as an independent marine electrical contractor like my three other buddies charging $130/hr and working 10hr days, 6 days a week ... in the same geographical area. Some guys are just not suited for self employment.

I think Mike is on the right track about how to approach people and get to know the locals. I had three calls today that are perfect examples ...

1. Customer - Hi, My name is Wes and I need a survey today can you do
it this morning ?
Answer - Sorry we are booked for the forseeable future.

2. Customer - How much is a survey ?
Answer - Sorry we are booked for the forseeable future.

3. Customer - Hey Wallace my name is Ted and I have 36' Catalina that
needs a survey before launch. I've read everything on
your website including your fee schedule and would really like
you and Sharon to do the job for me.
4. Answer -Ted, we are really pressed for time but let me know when you
have a confirmed launch date and we'll do our best to work it
out.

We will go a long way out of our way for repeat customers and people we feel something for. We have no interest in dealing with the rest of them.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

K is a terrific guy, a good friend and I constantly refer work to him (which he occasionally takes). He could easily establish himself as an independent marine electrical contractor like my three other buddies charging $130/hr and working 10hr days, 6 days a week ... in the same geographical area. Some guys are just not suited for self employment.

Well sure... but grinding out 60 hours a week for the nice half of the year isn't that attractive either. And how many of the 60 hrs/wk are actually billable?