A Realization

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by pbmaise

If you can provide a drawing...I would trust these people to make it and ship it to you.

Precision of Phuket - what other yacht and boat owners tell us

Precision of Phuket - yacht plumbing, stainless steel, marine electrical and running gear services provided

Including shipping it would be likely cheaper or about the same as having it done locally.

OK. Thank you for the referral. I will maybe have to do this remotely like you guys are saying. I really feel like it’s better to do it in person because there are so many things that crap up when you’re trying to mate two things together. But maybe there’s no other way.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Madehn

Seems to me that you are at the point where smallish obstacles have become enormous and are aggravated by your health issues. It also appears to affect your general attitude and approach to life in general. So I guess my advice is
Know when to hold them
Know when to fold them
Know when to walk away
Know when to run

I think it is time to run.
If you keep the boat I think you should name it DRAMA QUEEN for everything that has gone on with it. ��. Wish you the best but I think it is time to chalk this one up in the experience column and move on. If you hate building boats then why spend SIGNIFICANT part of your life doing it. Time is one thing we can never get more of.

Perfection is the mortal enemy of good enough.

Best of luck

Point taken. But I really don’t think I’m trying to be a perfectionist about getting a couple stupid little things done with metal. My God. This is ridiculous. It’s taken six months and no one has even done anything. I’m on literally 10 or 12 different metal shops at this point. Locally.

I definitely hear your post. I hate this more than anything you can imagine. I despise working on this. It makes my life suck. it’s hard to just throw away 10 years and hundreds of thousands of dollars and just walk away. At the same time. Especially when it’s this close to being done. It’s quite a shitty place to be in to be honest.

I’ve kind of moved past the sadness and into anger at this point.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Dave9111

I'm an engineer.
I run my own consulting company.

Sounds to me like you have supplier issues.

I have a friend who owns a large "sheetmetal" shop in north central Indiana. He has a very large air conditioned shop ( great fabricators like to work in good conditions) and some extremely skilled workers and engineers working for him. He has been very successful.

He has millions of $$ in machinery, brakes, CNC lasers, waterjets, etc.

Anyway his company is very well known in the midwest.

If you want them to give you a quote on some fabrications, that should not be a problem. I know they are busy, but they crank out a lot of parts. They keep stainless sheet and plate on the racks. They also keep various grades of aluminum sheet and plate in stock as well.

They have a new large CNC laser that can cut up to, I believe, 1" plate. They also have expert welders, and every type of bending and cutting equipment you can imagine.

If your suppliers can't get materials, that's one thing. If they can't get it done once they have the materials, then that's a problem and you probably need a different supplier. I think that many fabricators in the midwest have about a 1 month backlog right now. Maybe a little more or less.

Let me know if you need a referral. These guys are priced right as well. They are very efficient.

Regarding getting things done in Florida; Florida should be getting nice towards the end of Sept. I would suggest St. Augustine or Jacksonville. Jacksonville has a lot more industry than further south. In my mind, anything, south of St. Augustine is tourist central. Great for getting a suntan, doing a fishing charter, but not much else! I don't think much serious fabrication work gets done south of Jacksonville on the east coast of FL, unless you are in the aerospace business. For one thing, it's simply too hot. If I was a skilled welder, I wouldn't be looking for work in southeast FL!
Put on a leather jacket, gloves, and full helmet and fire up a welder and you will know why.

Dave

Thank you very much for the ideas and for the referral. I think you are right. The boat needs to get out of where it is. But what sucks is I have to get a Crossbeam on to move the mast on the boat. Otherwise I have to somehow trailer all of this stuff up to wherever I go.

My most responsive supplier towed the mast and the crossbeam away to their shop. Now I don’t have them at the marina.

I think you’re absolutely right. I need to change locations. And thank you for the idea of a referral. If changing locations doesn’t work, then I will take you up on that. If nothing else works. Thank you.

[geoleo]

Originally Posted by Chotu

if I can’t get the rig up on this boat this fall and have it ready to move around under wind power in the winter, I’m selling it.

Since I can do so little of the work myself, and nobody else really does any work, what more can I do at this point?

If anybody is looking for a catamaran like mine, you can start approaching me. I won’t know the answer about the sale until about October. That’s when I’ll know if I’m selling the boat.

but I can’t do this year after year after year. With nothing getting done. If I were working on it full-time, it would already be done. But I can’t. It’s incredibly frustrating.

been sitting on the composite chain plates for half a year now. Thanks to the daily rain. Everything is there and ready to go, but can’t open up the boat. Can’t build the chain plates.

please feel free to drop in any comments or hate or anything. I am really at my wits end here. Tell me why I should sell it or why I shouldn’t.

I just can’t get this boat completed. No matter how hard I try.

Florida is not a good place to get reliable skilled helpmaybe get it in water and tow it north??

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by MWhite

Wow, this is a sad state of affairs for you. Sunk costs are always hard to come to terms with, especially with something as personal as a boat you have built yourself. Of course, you will make the right decision for you in the end. But what stands out to me is your position regarding how much you, the world, the girlfriend, have all changed. You are not even sure that cruising is what you want to do anymore. And thus any delay in moving forward with the boat is even more mind numbingly irritating. Time passes. We get older, things happen. My suggestion is to step away for awhile and go do something you know you will have fun doing; whatever that is. Get some clarity. It seems very much like you are leaning towards selling and won't have a problem finding a buyer. Maybe it will be easier to make that decision from a place where you are enjoying life again. Then, if you don't want to keep struggling with the build process, go for the sale with a free heart and move forward in your life whether that is on land or sea or a combination of both. I say this with confidence, sitting aboard our 47 foot sailboat, getting ready to haul her out and removed the stick for boat work projects that feel unlimited. In the back of my mind there is that wee voice that says, "better hurry up and get this girl back out on the ocean before you stop wanting to do that/have too much body pain to enjoy that/have a grandchild/insert other reason here". Change is inevitable and it happens when we aren't looking. Best wishes for a fulfilling future, however that looks for you. And if you let the boat go, let it go with the joy of turning over what could be a life changing project for someone else.

Yeah. You don’t know the half of it. When I started this project I was married. I have went through about 10 times more things during this build than the average person during another boat build would go through. A fair number of people die during their boat build. I almost did. But that’s about the only thing I didn’t have happen during this.

What kind of sucks is I am so close to being able to actually use the boat, and I really need to use the boat to determine if I want to continue, but these stupid little outsource projects are killing me.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by geoleo

Florida is not a good place to get reliable skilled helpmaybe get it in water and tow it north??

it’s been in the water for six years I think now. It has 1000 nautical miles on it. It doesn’t need a tow.

I just need to finish the plumbing for the new steering system. I switched to hydraulic.

But without a crossbeam, how am I going to move the mast? I guess I should trailer all of that somewhere?

I’m with you here though. I just thought maybe I could get the crossbeam on so I could put the mast on the boat on deck and move it. At least. But it doesn’t appear I can even get that done.

where do you think is good? I have heard Saint Augustine in the thread. I’m thinking about it. I can’t go too far north, because the wrong time of year. Come spring I could go up to New England where they could probably get it done in an afternoon. Since they don’t suck as much. Ha ha

[GRIT]

If it were me, dealing with machine shops who really don't care, I'd consider making or buying a fitting that fits the beam, and make the boat side perpendicular to the beam, then building a box on the boat to fit the beam, instead of the other way around. The beam manufacturer will sell you an end, but it'll be at 90 degrees to the beam, then you build out the hull to fit the beam. In your case, you'll build an indent into the hulls.

I suspect the beam will be very difficult to shorten 1.5" on each side, due to the large pins that are used. You'll have to shorten it more than the diameter of the pin, unless you can weld plates to the existing beam, covering the holes, and re-drill for a new pin position.

The other option, as I see it, is to laminate a plate into the boat, and through the hulls, that you can drill to fit the pin in the beam. Instead of having a fitting, as normal, you'll have a plate mating to the holes in the beam.

Is the beam 3" too long now, or 3" too long with the ends attached?

Cheers.
Paul.

[GRIT]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Yeah. You don’t know the half of it. When I started this project I was married. I have went through about 10 times more things during this build than the average person during another boat build would go through. A fair number of people die during their boat build. I almost did. But that’s about the only thing I didn’t have happen during this.

What kind of sucks is I am so close to being able to actually use the boat, and I really need to use the boat to determine if I want to continue, but these stupid little outsource projects are killing me.

I've built the sistership to Chotu's boat, and he ain't lyin'. He has gone through about 10 times more than I have. The fact he's still here at all speaks to his strength of character.

GO CHOTU!!!

Paul.

[JPA Cate]

^^^^
Nicely said, Paul.

Ann

[Tetepare]

Well if you’d given it to me I’d have cut 3” off one end. Then you’d be mad.

You can fab the mounting tabs out of wood, and see how it fits. Saved my butt many times.


More than anything you have to be there. Period. Go to FL and get it done.

[Chotu]

Oh my god!!!!

Sir, I may have said this before, but you are an absolute genius!!!

I can control the fiberglass side of things. Not so much the metal side.

I can DEFINITELY cut a recess into the hull and attach the beam into that recess. It's epoxy work, but at least I can control that and get it done in a semi reasonable time frame.

it is a flat interface anyway in the plans. I would have had to put together a spacer to give the attachment bracket something square to grab onto. This makes perfect sense.

And right inside the hull at this point is a bulkhead design to carry this load.

So, if I notch out the bulkhead the right way, and add reinforcement with more glass layers on the bulkhead, I can put the pin right through the bulkhead! Even better than the bolts that are in the original design.

Mind is blown. This is pure genius!!

Originally Posted by GRIT

If it were me, dealing with machine shops who really don't care, I'd consider making or buying a fitting that fits the beam, and make the boat side perpendicular to the beam, then building a box on the boat to fit the beam, instead of the other way around. The beam manufacturer will sell you an end, but it'll be at 90 degrees to the beam, then you build out the hull to fit the beam. In your case, you'll build an indent into the hulls.

I suspect the beam will be very difficult to shorten 1.5" on each side, due to the large pins that are used. You'll have to shorten it more than the diameter of the pin, unless you can weld plates to the existing beam, covering the holes, and re-drill for a new pin position.

The other option, as I see it, is to laminate a plate into the boat, and through the hulls, that you can drill to fit the pin in the beam. Instead of having a fitting, as normal, you'll have a plate mating to the holes in the beam.

Is the beam 3" too long now, or 3" too long with the ends attached?

Cheers.
Paul.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Tetepare

Well if you’d given it to me I’d have cut 3” off one end. Then you’d be mad.

You can fab the mounting tabs out of wood, and see how it fits. Saved my butt many times.


More than anything you have to be there. Period. Go to FL and get it done.

Yeah, no doubt about it. I think I was approaching this the wrong way. Obviously Paul figured it out. I actually don’t need any metal work. All I have to do is modify the boat.

I never considered going off plan.

and well yeah. I do need to go to Florida. It’s about that time of year. As everyone in the thread said, take a break. That’s what I just did. My flight is on Tuesday.

what do you think about this?

Since no one can put together the mast extension, what about this simplification for that metal work?

* stand an aluminum I-beam up on its end.
* Weld a flat aluminum plate to each end so that it stands up without falling over.
* put a mast step interface on the bottom, as well as the top of this I-beam stand.
* Put the mast on top of the I beam
* get some extremely thin aluminum and bend it around the I-beam to the same shape as the mast section just for looks. A faring.

[Chotu]

OK, now, I really really really need some glassing help.

Is there anyone that anyone knows of that I can hire?

somewhat crappy accommodations are provided. The boat itself. It’s livable. It’s not pretty inside, but it’s livable.

The following need to be done:

* Cut out for the cross beam and glass in a box to accept it into each bow
* composite chain plates (already in progress a tiny bit)
* Sail control table (place to attach winches)
* New salon doors

These are listed in order of priority. If someone could just do the first one, I could live with it. If someone could do the first two, that would be absolutely fantastic. I could possibly do the sail control table because it doesn’t need to be epoxy. and the salon doors are just a dream. Ha ha.

I have all the materials ready for these projects.

[Rumpi]

The reason nobody has done anything about those "stupid little metal things" is because you did not supply the needed info, and don't even know what to ask for. First of all, your drawings are useless to a machine shop, they need actual engineering drawings with all the relevant dimensions. To be clear, besides precise angles and dimensions the critical question for them is what fit you require for the pin (google engineering fits). Second, your supplied general construction drawings are different from what your existing beam is buildt for. You need a naval architect or engineer that can decide the best course of action regarding your beam ends, then give the machinist the relevant info so that he can start fabrication. The options are: keep the existing beam ends and shorten the beam by cutting it somewhere else and splice back, or cut into the existing weldments and modify to fit your drawings. Either way he has to come out to the boat and take precise measurements to work with.

If you want the cheap and dirty diy version (I take no responsibility if it breaks), have your man mockup the chainplates in plywood using the existing beam ends (hopefully you also have the pins that go with them, if not have him use some dowel stock for that), then take some mild steel and an angle grinder and cut the plates to size and mark the holes (or have everything waterjet cut online). Any metal shop can then weld the plates and drill the holes while you wait. Give the whole affair a thick layer of paint and mount to the boat with tape or hot glue. Next take a precise measurement pin center to pin center, cut the beam at a convenient location and remove an appropriate piece to shorten the beam accordingly. Use your youtube guide to splice it back together, mount to the boat o verify all is well, then drill the fiberglass for final mounting with galvanized screws. If you have to also fabricate the pins, measure the holes in the beam and buy a piece of ground rod, then slather in paint and grease. This will do nicely to find out if you still like sailing. If yes, just replace the whole affair down the road with a carbon beam and titanium fittings, and keep painting over the occasional rust in the meantime.

Do the same thing for the other chainplates, mock in ply, make in mild steel, paint, go sailing. Replace at a convenient time and location. For the mast extension just use a piece of steel tube with two end plates.
If you find a hot dip galvanizer nearby you can do that, it's better then paint.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Rumpi

The reason nobody has done anything about those "stupid little metal things" is because you did not supply the needed info, and don't even know what to ask for. First of all, your drawings are useless to a machine shop, they need actual engineering drawings with all the relevant dimensions. To be clear, besides precise angles and dimensions the critical question for them is what fit you require for the pin (google engineering fits). Second, your supplied general construction drawings are different from what your existing beam is buildt for. You need a naval architect or engineer that can decide the best course of action regarding your beam ends, then give the machinist the relevant info so that he can start fabrication. The options are: keep the existing beam ends and shorten the beam by cutting it somewhere else and splice back, or cut into the existing weldments and modify to fit your drawings. Either way he has to come out to the boat and take precise measurements to work with.

If you want the cheap and dirty diy version (I take no responsibility if it breaks), have your man mockup the chainplates in plywood using the existing beam ends (hopefully you also have the pins that go with them, if not have him use some dowel stock for that), then take some mild steel and an angle grinder and cut the plates to size and mark the holes (or have everything waterjet cut online). Any metal shop can then weld the plates and drill the holes while you wait. Give the whole affair a thick layer of paint and mount to the boat with tape or hot glue. Next take a precise measurement pin center to pin center, cut the beam at a convenient location and remove an appropriate piece to shorten the beam accordingly. Use your youtube guide to splice it back together, mount to the boat o verify all is well, then drill the fiberglass for final mounting with galvanized screws. If you have to also fabricate the pins, measure the holes in the beam and buy a piece of ground rod, then slather in paint and grease. This will do nicely to find out if you still like sailing. If yes, just replace the whole affair down the road with a carbon beam and titanium fittings, and keep painting over the occasional rust in the meantime.

Do the same thing for the other chainplates, mock in ply, make in mild steel, paint, go sailing. Replace at a convenient time and location. For the mast extension just use a piece of steel tube with two end plates.
If you find a hot dip galvanizer nearby you can do that, it's better then paint.

you’re right. That would work. But I think the stuff I decided above in the last few posts is a lot better because it’s a permanent solution. if I do it the cheap way like that, it’s just going to have to get redone again and that’s not a good idea. It’s going to take 10 times longer and weigh 10x as much. Redoing things on a boat takes significantly longer than doing it the right way the first time.

I don’t know about your first paragraph. These are dimensioned drawings. I don’t know why you and that other guy are saying there are no dimensions. Not sure why you think that. Just because I didn’t include the entire sheet in the picture, because I wanted to protect the designer's intellectual property, doesn’t mean the information isn’t there. All dimensions are specified and this is an existing object within AutoCAD. Not sure why I have had to repeat that so many times in this thread.

But it’s certainly true that it’s a modification of these drawings I was looking for. Something to fit the beam that is in the hands of my machine shop at their facility on one end, and fitting the plans on the other end. Really not that hard. I think if people are that slow that are working on this stuff, then maybe I should not be using them. How hard is it to picture what should be on one end and what should be on the other end? Seriously. It doesn’t take much thought.

It’s funny. There is a Mexican welding shop nearby. I brought in my truck for a bunch of welding on the frame and bed and stuff. all I did was talk to them about what I wanted. No drawings. Nothing. I pointed. I said this should be like this this should be like that. they made an entirely new sub frame for the bed of my truck and got it done within a reasonable amount of time. I think it’s a cultural problem. Americans are not as good. Lol. And I can say that on this forum because I am one. That’s not something that should be knocked out of here by the moderators. I’m talking about my own country. The Mexicans had a work ethic. They got it done. Americans? Not good. Rant over.

So, I do have the Mexican guys for any little bits of side work. And I might just have them do the I beam with the plates on the end. At least they will just do it. Unlike the Americans who say they will do it but never do anything.

I will have to get home before I do the I-beam or box beam. I have to calculate the moment of inertia for whatever thing I use there. I don’t have those numbers with me. They are in a notebook.