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Old 21-07-2019, 12:47   #1
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What additional gear to be comfortable?

Hi there,
Family of 4 from New Zealand soon to be heading to Germany from which we will be in search of our new home with sails. With a fairly tight budget we will be looking for an existing Liveaboard Yacht... OR an ex-charter in which we have to add some gear to make it our home. My questions for advise are;

1, Do we looking for an existing liveaboard yacht all set up and tuned for a family to live in?
2, Do we look for a good priced ex-charter in which we need to add hardware?

What do we need? I am thinking that a wishlist would be as follows;
-- Watermaker ( we would try to avoid the costs of marina's)
-- Wind turbine
-- Solar Panels
-- Generator
-- AIS
-- SSB

I dont know where we will be buying from but I guess if the right yacht comes along we will jump right on it.

If we decide to go the ex-charter way.. is it difficult sourcing the above items and getting them installed?
What approximately will they cost?

Lastly.. any favorite brands to look for? So far we are jumping between Bavaria/Jeanneau/Beneteau with so many people having each as THEIR favorite..

Any advice or thoughts greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Tim
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Old 21-07-2019, 12:57   #2
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Re: What additional gear to be comfortable?

Forget about SSB, it would be a waste of money unless you’re a short wave radio enthusiast. That said, I have one and that I haven’t used in eight years. Radar should be on your list instead of wind turbine. Radar will someday save your life so learn to use it, the wind turbine....will just annoy you, especially if you already have solar and a generator.

Add: Buy an Ultra anchor to your list, you won’t be sorry that you spent the money.
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Old 21-07-2019, 13:38   #3
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Re: What additional gear to be comfortable?

Thank you Kenomac, much appreciated
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Old 21-07-2019, 14:06   #4
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Re: What additional gear to be comfortable?

You might be better off looking in Greece for an ex-charter boat, particularly in a couple of months as the season comes to an end.

Sailing Creo had a yacht in the Med, sold it and bought a strong boat in the UK. Changed their minds, sold it and bought another in the Med. Worth watching their thoughts on the previous few videos and the one they finally settled on. Whilst there is just two of them, I think his son joins them for holidays.

Germany doesn't have a huge coast, Holland and France might off better opportunities.

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Old 21-07-2019, 14:20   #5
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Re: What additional gear to be comfortable?

Thanks Pete, will check them out.. Germany was only a base option as my in-laws live there..
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Old 21-07-2019, 14:24   #6
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Re: What additional gear to be comfortable?

There are a lot of dry storage yards around Rome with plentifull yachts for sale, often not expensive as very often from repossession by banks.
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Old 22-07-2019, 08:55   #7
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Re: What additional gear to be comfortable?

Run, don't walk to your nearest "trade school" for basic training on diesels and installing simple electronics. This goes for your spouse as well as anyone in your family over 14 years of age, regardless of sex. Everyone over 14 years of age, living and cruising on a boat should have a basic knowledge of the boat's systems and share responsibility for the operation and maintenance.

Installation costs can frequently equal or surpass the costs of equipment. Most of what you are contemplating purchasing are fairly simple installations, frequently more than adequately covered by the manufactures instruction manuals or their help lines. Besides, the more you know about your boat's systems, the better you will be prepared to assess and potentially fix a problem offshore. Knowledge of your boat's systems may prevent a minor problem from becoming a life threatening situation.
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Old 22-07-2019, 09:15   #8
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Re: What additional gear to be comfortable?

In most of the Med, a watermaker is a convenience, but not a necessity. I mean, we love our watermaker, but they are expensive, use a lot of power, and in the developed world you can always get water at the dock. If I were cruising in Baja California, a watermaker would be a must.


An SSB is probably also not needed, unless you are far from land you can get adequate mobile phone coverage, and the newer satellite systems (Garmin In-Reach for example) are much less expensive to install.


I agree that radar is a useful safety measure, but you can get by without it most places in the Med. Maine, I would absolutely want it.


Really, a good depth meter, a VHF, and a working toilet are the main things you need. Which, by the way, is what you'll find on an ex-charter boat.
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Old 22-07-2019, 09:42   #9
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Re: What additional gear to be comfortable?

One thing is - if you are in Germany you will very soon explore other markets. Germany gets quite cold very soon. A boat in the Med can be sailed all year round.


This brings up another important factor: boats in Germany tend to be in MUCH BETTER condition overall compared to any ex-charter Med boat. Germany is THE place where mechanics are good, supplies are quality and owners tend meticulous ... quite unlike anybody who is Mediterranean or who runs a Med-based charter company.


While in Germany, explore Sweden, UK, Netherlands, Denmark, France - all these have fantastic s/h boat markets. Just mind buying there you may want to get out fast. And it is quite a long and rough way from there to the South, should you depart late.


As for 'what we need onboard' - mind you can buy what you need anywhere, so just get a sound boat that will let you get going immediately, then add systems VERY SLOWLY - as and when you find you cannot do without X. And do not listen too much to other cruisers as people will tend to tell you you need this or that, only because they do. This is a common newbie cruising trap.


Get a quality, sound and clean boat. Go sailing, get where winter can be spent onboard and add systems SLOWLY. Systems do not sail the boat. Sound rigging, structure, sails and good engine are above and beyond all add-ons that may come later.


I hope this helps you a bit. If you take your new toy to Canary Islands at any point PLS drop me a note. Me and my crew winter over here when we are not in the West Indies.


As a price tip: I have just surveyed a Moody 376 here. An absolute delight of a boat (just this one a bit under-maintained ...) Asking EUR 60k (overpriced). But ... she is already in the South ...


A boat like this, at a better price and in better condition (both viable if you search and bid) could be a happy cruising home for four. And one that can be safely taken back home crossing the Pacific and not worrying about rudders and keels falling of. (That's choice, mate!)



Good luck and fair winds!



Cheers,
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Old 22-07-2019, 10:32   #10
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Re: What additional gear to be comfortable?

We're are you cruising makes. Difference,
South Pacific water maker, any were else with a fit family waste of money, Ssb waste of money every one is using sat. Now, AIS not essential I would rather have radar. Good bunks good galley good layout. VHF decent sun coverage do not get bogged down with upgrades on electronics if it works use it until it breaks
All the Awb marguees are good enough boats get a good survey and of you go. Look all over EUROPE NOT just Germany plenty good boats out there
Do not get bogged down in the detail no boat is perfect go with what suits you as a family and a good survey
Most boats on sail through decent brokerage will have decent boats have a wander around and get a feel for what us out there and do not be afraid to put in a low offer it is a buyers market
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Old 22-07-2019, 11:20   #11
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Re: What additional gear to be comfortable?

Electric windlass and autopilot.
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Old 22-07-2019, 11:38   #12
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Re: What additional gear to be comfortable?

Aside from the usual safety equipment, radar & AIS, and solar/wind, the addition that I've most appreciated is the Raritan Electroscan sanitation system. They're not terribly expensive, pretty easy to install, and can be used in most places. Freedom from the pump-out! Well, mostly anyway.

A watermaker may not be sensible from a purely financial point of view, but the convenience cannot be denied. Ours is a little Spectra 150 12v which produces more than enough water for us and is easily powered from the battery bank charged by our solar panels and wind generator.

The SSB is all but useless except for getting weather reports from Chris Parker and others unless you get a Practor modem and use it for email.

We also have a small ice-maker that I run with the inverter; it has no refrigeration, makes very little ice, but it's more than welcome on a hot day. We don't make ice with the tiny vertical trays in our tiny fridge, using the freezer section for food.

The only other thing I can add is a large bottle of Ibuprofen.

Fair winds,
Leo
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Old 22-07-2019, 11:42   #13
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Re: What additional gear to be comfortable?

In my opinion,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom Family View Post
What do we need? I am thinking that a wishlist would be as follows;
-- Watermaker (we would try to avoid the costs of marina's)Yes, but a smaller unit to save cost, you don't need 30 gal/hr
-- Wind turbineNo, noisy and with little power
-- Solar PanelsYes, as many as you can fit
-- GeneratorNo, heavy, added engine complex to maintain, upgrade the main engine's alternator and regulator, use that to charge when needed, but mostly rely on solar.
-- AISAbsolutely, and one that transmits as well as receives
-- SSBMany people now use sat phone for calls and weather, but I am still fond of my SSB and Pactor, once you have purchased and installed it the costs are less.
And, skip radar, uses power and AIS is pretty good
Wind vane self steering
Good navigation set up. PC with OpenCPN is least expensive.

You should try to install all this stuff yourself, it is much cheaper and you learn the systems and pick up the skills.
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Old 22-07-2019, 12:06   #14
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Re: What additional gear to be comfortable?

If you are truly headed for long ocean passages, keep equipment to a minimum. solar panels, electric anchor windlass, spare anchors, yes. Radar only if going into areas known for fog - not the typical tropical run.
Every piece of equipment adds weight, takes up space that could hold food and water, makes electrical demands and increases maintenance duties.
All weight causes increased fuel usage, slows the boat under sail and engine and increases wear and tear on sails and rigging.

Comfortable bunks, lee cloths if necessary, good galley and food preparation space, a head that can be used in all weather are most necessary for comfortable long term/long distance cruising.
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Old 22-07-2019, 12:36   #15
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Re: What additional gear to be comfortable?

We bought our 8 yr old ex charter boat in Croatia for half its USA value. It came with everything they supply on charter. We sailed off to Greece after adding a 12’ tender and solar panels. In the last5 yrs we added a code 0 which is rarely used, AIS, fish finder, radar rarely used but cheap insurance, extra anchors,, scuba compressor. I use Navionics on I pad, iridium go offshore. Water isn’t a issue just pull up to a dock every 3 weeks. We never shuttle jugs.
Read Fatty Goodladers books a wealth of info.
Most of the boats aren’t listed and go on the market in September. They must be gone by April so start shopping early and make some low offers. See what counters you get as April gets close.
Do whatever it Needs in the Med it gets way more expensive in the Caribbean
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