Single Women Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look

[gamayun]

Originally Posted by weavis

Would I take her alone? No. maybe a 2 hour scoot around the bay but not for a 'proper sail'. Its the value I place on reputation and protocol. In Latin countries, etiquette is important.

Weavis, it works both ways and it's irrespective of culture. When I did the delivery of my boat from San Diego to San Francisco a married male friend who's one of the most experienced sailors I know, offered to do it with me. Word got around and a mutual friend said to me in a sly sideways comment, "it'll be nice to spend 4 days alone with 'Joe' on your boat." It gave me pause. Not because I thought anything would happen between us (married men are off limits for me - no exceptions), but because people of small minds seem to make the biggest gossips. I asked another female friend of ours if she would like to join us. It turned out great and made me realize that 3 is actually the best number for me during longer passages. In another situation when I was traveling in Jordan with a male friend, I asked him to refer to me as his sister after we got a funny look from a taxi driver when he called me "my friend." Nothing sexual was going on between us, but in more conservative countries, the deception allowed people to feel more comfortable when they were around us.

[gamayun]

Originally Posted by goat

There are a couple groups I've found for misogynistic and misandristic solo sailors;

Forever alone guys sailing,

and

Ladies enjoying sailing by our selves.

They're both looking for good acronyms. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

goat

Sailors?

[gamayun]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Where have I said I am not comfortable around strong independent females..
Its the guys that do my head in..
Just because I choose/prefer women as crew are you saying any woman who crews for me on a delivery is a meek, subservient doormat.. for accepting that as it is my responsibility, it is my place to make any important decisions.. and if they are on watch alone while I sleep they should call me if the winds increase's/ change direction etc.
You may enjoy MOB's at night.. I do not.. more so if I do not find out till I wake up naturally.
Or are you just doing a female Weavis and reading to fast.. did try to get the grammar proper.. [emoji3]

No, dude. I was referring to the story about the male who got aggressive during the storm and wanted you to turn around until you went flying off a wave and then he disappeared below to leave you to it. This is an example of what women face on their boats. You handled it nicely, but many women sailors I know feel demoralized by that kind of attitude. Of course, you don't sail with other men either so there's that loaded statement...

[TheThunderbird]

Originally Posted by gamayun

Really? Who said we're not open to sweet mating? Lonely people are alone. I'm single and a solo sailor when I race. I sail often with friends of both gender and I share my bunk if I find a guy I like. The comments here, particularly Boatie's experience, suggests some males are not comfortable around strong, independent females, or those who are competent on their own boats, because they can't give up control. This thread, however, only "proves" what each of us wants to believe....

dear gamayun, I think you really got boatie the other way round.

I relish women's company, whatever is their seamanship, possibly better than mine, provided there is no misrepresentation or role playing (which actually happens more with macho-men).

Point is not about bunk sharing, but about openness. I met several women, in my bunks too, and eager to sail... live at sea, own THEIR OWN boat.
But.. The way they look at "freedom"at sea is without a man.

The reasons? Plenty of...
Wish to prove themselves....
Lack of trust or confidence
Bad past experiences..
Whatever imagination suggests.

Men are more available for the Next test/chance. And, it is not about buying someone's life... But out if sheer desire to join, share, be close together. Well, hard to make it work, really.

Much easier with any other (straight) man at random

[weavis]

Well, to all of us male dissing bullies and extorters, It seems no joy is to be had in changing the viewpoint or the commentary regarding solo male sailors being a certain way. So be it.

My reality of sailing is: Big bills from time to time, nice people, good interaction between most males and females on and off boats, a pleasant lifestyle and a better quality of life. Did I mention Big bills?

I live fairly landlocked in Sevilla Spain. We have a lovely river which due to having nice friends, I get to motor on in a large passenger boat every week, and get down to the sea every couple of weeks or when I take time off.

So perhaps we can discuss other topics related to male female perspectives of sharing a love for the water instead of dwelling on a singular viewpoint of males and why we are the bane of the world.

It is in all of our interests to work together. I enjoy being with professional females and seeing their appreciation of boating and heaven forbid, actually learn something from them!

When I was 16, I was flying Cessnas. My CFI was a woman. She taught me well and patiently. She went on to fly for an international outfit.

On the river here, the wife of my friend can handle the boat better than the pair of us. Is he jealous? He just smiles and tells her how much he loves her...

I guess we find what we look for.

Happy sailing people...

[gamayun]

Yeah, I just reread my post. I worded it very badly. Apologies. I shouldn't try to post while I'm still waking up!

[weavis]

Originally Posted by gamayun

Yeah, I just reread my post. I worded it very badly. Apologies. I shouldn't try to post while I'm still waking up!

Women!

I mean thats ok, we understand....

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by gamayun

No, dude. I was referring to the story about the male who got aggressive during the storm and wanted you to turn around until you went flying off a wave and then he disappeared below to leave you to it. This is an example of what women face on their boats. You handled it nicely, but many women sailors I know feel demoralized by that kind of attitude. Of course, you don't sail with other men either so there's that loaded statement...

Gamayun.. Finance's sometimes drive me to sail with owners.. and.. not all are bad.
But I have been known to have a gut full and get off somewhere down the line.. making sure I only get paid for work done and no ticket home as I'm leaving by choice.
I have even walked off before setting sail when on the morning of sailing the owner insisted he would be THE skipper even tho' I was hired as a delivery skipper.. this was last year.
I have a clean sheet with deliveries and intend to keep it that way.. no way am I copping the blame for someone else's bad decisions.

[weavis]

Lets try this on CF.

We can all treat each other as equal as sailors and actually discuss attitudes toward boating situations from each individual perspective.

By equal, I mean the love of the water and being on it. Some have more experience than other and we can share... remember sharing? Its a lot better than having to defend oneself against prejudice.

[weavis]

I will kick off.

Im not a delivery skipper. NO interest. HOwever there have been times I have moved a boat for inexperienced people, no more than a long days trip. I think the worst time was when I was accompanied by the husband and wife of a new boat. He wanted to take over and had zero knowledge. At the 30 minute mark, I had to decide whether to dock and get off or carry on.

It was at that point that I heard raised voices below, male and female. Then just female. 2 minutes later the wife came up with a nice cup of coffee and some cake. She patted my arm and said how much they both appreciated me helping them. She smiled sweetly and said that her husband sometimes forgets how to delegate and it was also a problem in his company. 30 minutes later he came up and asked me to please tell him when something need doing and he would be honoured to assist me in showing him the ropes.

It could have turned out really bad. If I delivered boats it would have to be a deep discussion prior with the owners or I think.... it would be too difficult to do.

Bless that woman!

[cyan]

Originally Posted by weavis

Lets try this on CF.

We can all treat each other as equal as sailors and actually discuss attitudes toward boating situations from each individual perspective.

By equal, I mean the love of the water and being on it. Some have more experience than other and we can share... remember sharing? Its a lot better than having to defend oneself against prejudice.

I like this new idea! This is better than extortion. There has been so much extortion in this thread previously that the international extortion police have been notified.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by weavis

Well, to all of us male dissing bullies and extorters, It seems no joy is to be had in changing the viewpoint or the commentary regarding solo male sailors being a certain way. So be it.

My reality of sailing is: Big bills from time to time, nice people, good interaction between most males and females on and off boats, a pleasant lifestyle and a better quality of life. Did I mention Big bills?

I live fairly landlocked in Sevilla Spain. We have a lovely river which due to having nice friends, I get to motor on in a large passenger boat every week, and get down to the sea every couple of weeks or when I take time off.

So perhaps we can discuss other topics related to male female perspectives of sharing a love for the water instead of dwelling on a singular viewpoint of males and why we are the bane of the world.

It is in all of our interests to work together. I enjoy being with professional females and seeing their appreciation of boating and heaven forbid, actually learn something from them!

When I was 16, I was flying Cessnas. My CFI was a woman. She taught me well and patiently. She went on to fly for an international outfit.

On the river here, the wife of my friend can handle the boat better than the pair of us. Is he jealous? He just smiles and tells her how much he loves her...

I guess we find what we look for.

Happy sailing people...

Weavis relax.. stop taking things so personally.
I have a different perspective to you as I have lived on boats for years, worked in the boating world since the '80's in B/yards in the UK, US, Spain and Portugal.. cruised the E Atlantic coast, the Med, the Caribe, part of East USA and across the S Pacific to and 3/4 round OZ.. pretty sure I ran into a few Witness Protection folk on the ICW..
In these years I have met alcoholic skippers, sex mad skippers who are grabbers.. LBGT's, druggies, bad sailors, good sailors, butt wipes and a lot of awesome people in both sexes.. and of course the only paedo I knew off for certain, who sailed away with a cruising families 14yr old daughter in Fuengirola.. never did find out what the end result was as I sailed for the Balearics a couple of weeks later.
Your activities are as a mud person who's experiences are in set locations, with boats owned locally that go out for day sails and the occasional w/end..
Even in the UK apart from the marina queen liveaboards its likely you came across few live aboard sailors in the real sense.. transients with no other home but the boat.
Funny enough I happen to know a Spanish family from Seville who keep their boat in Portugal and come to it for holidays and long weekends along the Algarve.. get together once a year around August if I'm in country down at Ferragudo for a few beers and jaw jaw.. nice folks.
I also know Seville and its a long way from the sea.. four hours plus is the rough time before one hits open water and can actually do some sailing in a decent keel boat.
I am in no way disparaging you however.. but your sailing is somewhat sheltered from the realities of the French who sail down from Marseille every summer with shopping lists for dinghy's, outboards, pedigree dogs etc..
Crews solo sailors take on who steal them blind after winning trust.. and sometimes kill them..
When you live full time in this environment you learn to read the signs..
I suppose its like a white guy walking through Brixton or Sandy Ground in the early hours of the morning.. all sense's alert.. or a black guy walking through Bradford..
There's full time solo sailors and there's solo day sailors.. it like saying a hyena and a poodle are the same animal.
Maybe one day you will join us.. but from what you have said to date mud is vital to your existence and the sea is just a playground you'll go to now and then.
And there is nothing whatsoever wrong with that..
As a doctor.. take a chill pill amigo..

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Exile.. I came to the solo or female only during my very first delivery for an income back in '98.. had done several along the UK S coast previously but that had been to help out friends and customers at the B/yard I worked at.
Long story short I was in Agua Dulce, Spain when a guy came to the boat and asked if I would be interested in taking his boat to the UK for him.. a friend on another boat had pointed him my way and said I was the most experienced guy in the marina.
It was a home build CC steel boat that he wanted taking up the Thames to Gallions Reach in London's East End.
I had a friend in the UK who had been saying how much he'd like to do a 2week spell on a boat (He'd been on w/end trips across the channel with me when I lived in Poole) so I dropped him a line and we agreed to meet up at Fuengirola, the most convenient place for us both.
The trip down to Gib was great.. light winds, dolphins and easy motoring.. his GF was in her element.
As we reached Europa Point the wind turned Westerly so we went into Gib and spent a few days there waiting for the turn.. it came as we were having Sunday roast beef lunches sitting outside one of the restaurants that line the marina when I looked up and saw the cloud was moving position.. so told them to eat up as it was time to go.
1 hour later we cast off lines and headed across the bay to the straits.. by this time the wind was an E3-4 and by chance the tide was with us and we flew down towards Tarifa..
By the time we got there the funnelling had piped the wind up to F7 and the tide was on the turn so the sea's were building so I settled down behind the wheel for a few hours of surfing.. waves slowly building up.. by the time we were halfway between Tarifa and Trafalgar they were coming in sets of 2metres and up to 3+ metres..
Lindsay who was down below was starting to freak out a bit and Peter who was sat next to me in the cockpit was white knuckling.. and kept looking back at the lights of Tarifa behind us as dusk fell.
We got a biggie surf and Lindsay squealed and Peter started saying we should turn and go into Tarifa.. I tried telling him it would be very hard work if not downright dangerous to try given the boat, the wind and sea.. and the bottom.
But he started get aggressive about it so I figured okay.. lets see if I can change his mind.. last thing I wanted was a physical confrontation with someone 3 stone heavier than me in those conditions so, I told him we'd turn back and he sat down again and calmed down.
I started timing the sets and chose my turn between waves 5 and 6.. and we quartered over it comfortably enough and I then turned bow on to the 3.5'r breaking wave thundering down on us...
Huge burst of spray and the bow flew up in the air.. Lindsay flew of the bunk and across the cabin.. Peter grabbed a line and held on for dear life and as we crested and went down the other side all I could hear was the longest scream ever coming outa the hatch.
Peter turned to me and said.. "Phil, Phil.. turn back round.. your right man.. that's insane.." then once I'd done the 180 back to 270 he disappeared below to check on Lindsay..
Four hours later we were well past the funnel and motoring across a lazy glassy swell with the lights of Cadiz casting a glow of the Stbd quarter.
Went into Faro/Olhau and anchored of the island of Culatra so they could spend a few days sunning and exploring a bit of Portugal before flying home.
Sailed from there to Gallions Reach solo after they left.
Women crew I find are.. if they trust you.. prepared to follow instructions, not be confrontational and generally better company.. no brag fests.. no going 180 'because its more comfortable..'
Men on the other hand have a tendency to think they know better.. will not wake you at first signs of problems resulting in one coming on deck to be greeted by a gale, a Cruise ship bearing down on you a mile away.. woken by a change in boat movement to find he's been twatting about with switches and turned off the AP and the boats curved into the winds and your screaming towards a reef in approaches to the Torres Strait.. there's many more reasons.
Call me a control freak but.. its my responsibility as the skipper to make sure boat and crew arrive safely at the other end and in the best possible order.. it is not down to some know it all smart a$re who's done a couple of charters and thinks he's the tooth fairies gift to the sailing world and who, if anything happens will say.. 'Not my fault.. He's the skipper blame him'
And.. women smell nicer in the main.. [emoji3]

Through out this thread I've disagreed with many things you've said, don't believe we would ever see eye to eye regarding discussion upto date.

I do agree with the above. I only have women crew for all the reasons you stated , including they smell better.. Lol. I like my mates but don't want to live on a sailboat with any of them. I should add I've also had a couple of ladies crew that tried to be in control, as well as some that just don't pay their way but overall I prefer women crew.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Through out this thread I've disagreed with many things you've said, don't believe we would ever see eye to eye regarding discussion upto date.

I do agree with the above. I only have women crew for all the reasons you stated , including they smell better.. Lol. I like my mates but don't want to live on a sailboat with any of them. I should add I've also had a couple of ladies crew that tried to be in control, as well as some that just don't pay their way but overall I prefer women crew.

Would be a bludi boring Forum if we all agreed on everything.. not worth logging in..
Why do so many single Western males of all ages head for Thailand..???
Easy sex..
Why don't I sail to Thailand..???
Easy sex..
Like the solo W to E Transats.. I like a challenge..

[Exile]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Exile.. I came to the solo or female only during my very first delivery for an income back in '98.. had done several along the UK S coast previously but that had been to help out friends and customers at the B/yard I worked at.
Long story short I was in Agua Dulce, Spain when a guy came to the boat and asked if I would be interested in taking his boat to the UK for him.. a friend on another boat had pointed him my way and said I was the most experienced guy in the marina.
It was a home build CC steel boat that he wanted taking up the Thames to Gallions Reach in London's East End.
I had a friend in the UK who had been saying how much he'd like to do a 2week spell on a boat (He'd been on w/end trips across the channel with me when I lived in Poole) so I dropped him a line and we agreed to meet up at Fuengirola, the most convenient place for us both.
The trip down to Gib was great.. light winds, dolphins and easy motoring.. his GF was in her element.
As we reached Europa Point the wind turned Westerly so we went into Gib and spent a few days there waiting for the turn.. it came as we were having Sunday roast beef lunches sitting outside one of the restaurants that line the marina when I looked up and saw the cloud was moving position.. so told them to eat up as it was time to go.
1 hour later we cast off lines and headed across the bay to the straits.. by this time the wind was an E3-4 and by chance the tide was with us and we flew down towards Tarifa..
By the time we got there the funnelling had piped the wind up to F7 and the tide was on the turn so the sea's were building so I settled down behind the wheel for a few hours of surfing.. waves slowly building up.. by the time we were halfway between Tarifa and Trafalgar they were coming in sets of 2metres and up to 3+ metres..
Lindsay who was down below was starting to freak out a bit and Peter who was sat next to me in the cockpit was white knuckling.. and kept looking back at the lights of Tarifa behind us as dusk fell.
We got a biggie surf and Lindsay squealed and Peter started saying we should turn and go into Tarifa.. I tried telling him it would be very hard work if not downright dangerous to try given the boat, the wind and sea.. and the bottom.
But he started get aggressive about it so I figured okay.. lets see if I can change his mind.. last thing I wanted was a physical confrontation with someone 3 stone heavier than me in those conditions so, I told him we'd turn back and he sat down again and calmed down.
I started timing the sets and chose my turn between waves 5 and 6.. and we quartered over it comfortably enough and I then turned bow on to the 3.5'r breaking wave thundering down on us...
Huge burst of spray and the bow flew up in the air.. Lindsay flew of the bunk and across the cabin.. Peter grabbed a line and held on for dear life and as we crested and went down the other side all I could hear was the longest scream ever coming outa the hatch.
Peter turned to me and said.. "Phil, Phil.. turn back round.. your right man.. that's insane.." then once I'd done the 180 back to 270 he disappeared below to check on Lindsay..
Four hours later we were well past the funnel and motoring across a lazy glassy swell with the lights of Cadiz casting a glow of the Stbd quarter.
Went into Faro/Olhau and anchored of the island of Culatra so they could spend a few days sunning and exploring a bit of Portugal before flying home.
Sailed from there to Gallions Reach solo after they left.
Women crew I find are.. if they trust you.. prepared to follow instructions, not be confrontational and generally better company.. no brag fests.. no going 180 'because its more comfortable..'
Men on the other hand have a tendency to think they know better.. will not wake you at first signs of problems resulting in one coming on deck to be greeted by a gale, a Cruise ship bearing down on you a mile away.. woken by a change in boat movement to find he's been twatting about with switches and turned off the AP and the boats curved into the winds and your screaming towards a reef in approaches to the Torres Strait.. there's many more reasons.
Call me a control freak but.. its my responsibility as the skipper to make sure boat and crew arrive safely at the other end and in the best possible order.. it is not down to some know it all smart a$re who's done a couple of charters and thinks he's the tooth fairies gift to the sailing world and who, if anything happens will say.. 'Not my fault.. He's the skipper blame him'
And.. women smell nicer in the main..

I've never hired a delivery cap but have had to deal with difficult male egos onboard. One in particular is a former Marine fighter pilot, so while he had some excellent technical skills his perspective was from 'sailing' at 600 kts! His instinct to remedy any problems with more throttle usually worked fine when we rode & raced motorcycles together, but resulted in imprudent judgment when we encountered some challenging scenarios at sea. So I can understand where you're coming from, and can also understand why there have been entire books written by women on how to deal with their otherwise docile male partners who suddenly morph into 'Capt Bligh's' when they step onboard their boats.

But I'm not sure such patterns of behavior make a rule, especially off the boat (where my Marine friend, for e.g., is most pleasant & easily tolerable). And examples abound of opposite scenarios involving men and women. A woman owner/cap I met a couple of years ago had circumnavigated & would only have male crew, explaining that women crew were a total PITA. Go figure! My only point was that, on account of the nature of your work, you've perhaps been inundated with difficult male personalities and this has informed your general perception outside your working life. Perhaps . . . .