SHTF and Boats

[hpeer]

We in the USA live in a Republic.

For 30 years I lived in Philadlephia, Democrat rule since 1952, how is that a Democracy when you have 1 party rule?

ONE major problem with the USA is the 2 party system and professional career politicians. They have the game rigged to protect their position of influence.

Any “fix” in the USA will gut the parties of their special position.

I don’t expect that anytime soon and prefer to live apart from that to the extent possible and comfortable. Our SHTF boat is a great resource in that regard.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by hpeer

For 30 years I lived in Philadlephia, Democrat rule since 1952, how is that a Democracy when you have 1 party rule?

ONE major problem with the USA is the 2 party system and professional career politicians. They have the game rigged to protect their position of influence.

Any “fix” in the USA will gut the parties of their special position.

I hear you; I'm no fan of a rigid, hierarchical 2-party system. But it is yours to fix. Suggestion - add a pragmatic centrist party. With 3 parties, more policy ideas will find a home.

[floater88]

All of these posts make think of the movie Percy's' Progress. It would be nice, at first, to come back to a world like that. But like everything else i'm sure it would grow tiring.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by Tillikum

...
The welfare state of course costs money, and that money comes from taxing the productive part of the population or borrowing from the anticipated wealth of future generations - what is politely known as "debt financing": robbing the grandkids to keep us in the manner to which we are accustomed.
...

Originally Posted by Oeanda

Nicely sums up the entire global strategy

Ike warned us in his Farewell Speech, aka, the Military Industrial Complex(MIC) Speech, the press always talks about the MIC but never mention his warning regarding the Research Industrial Complex(RIC) and indebting our grand children. I wonder why?

https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_cen...enhower001.asp

V.

Another factor in maintaining balance involves the element of time. As we peer into society's future, we -- you and I, and our government -- must avoid the impulse to live only for today, plundering, for our own ease and convenience, the precious resources of tomorrow. We cannot mortgage the material assets of our grandchildren without risking the loss also of their political and spiritual heritage. We want democracy to survive for all generations to come, not to become the insolvent phantom of tomorrow.

Funny, Ike talks about HUNDREDS of new electronic computers, systems that are so weak compared to the smart phones we have in our pockets, and he could not foresee the huge data collection of private information, tracking, and location data of people, by both government and business, that makes today's RIC so worrisome.

First part of the next quote is the MIC part of the speech followed by the RIC that is never mentioned.

IV.

A vital element in keeping the peace is our military establishment. Our arms must be mighty, ready for instant action, so that no potential aggressor may be tempted to risk his own destruction.

Our military organization today bears little relation to that known by any of my predecessors in peacetime, or indeed by the fighting men of World War II or Korea.

Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry. American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But now we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense; we have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. Added to this, three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. We annually spend on military security more than the net income of all United States corporations.

This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.

Akin to, and largely responsible for the sweeping changes in our industrial-military posture, has been the technological revolution during recent decades.

In this revolution, research has become central; it also becomes more formalized, complex, and costly. A steadily increasing share is conducted for, by, or at the direction of, the Federal government.

Today, the solitary inventor, tinkering in his shop, has been overshadowed by task forces of scientists in laboratories and testing fields. In the same fashion, the free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research. Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity. For every old blackboard there are now hundreds of new electronic computers.

The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present and is gravely to be regarded. Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientifictechnological elite.

It is the task of statesmanship to mold, to balance, and to integrate these and other forces, new and old, within the principles of our democratic system -- ever aiming toward the supreme goals of our free society.

Later,
Dan

[Oeanda]

Out of curiosity, and I really don’t mean to push any buttons, is the idea of ‘bugging out’ from an apocalyptic future mainly just an American one- or is prevalent anywhere else? I haven’t come across the survivalist idea elsewhere in my travels. I haven’t been to Europe though- is it a thing there? I mainly only see it here in Canada among American immigrants. Never came across it in South America or Asia that I noticed.

I’m not talking about refugees from actual current famine, war, and abject poverty. I’m talking more about pop culture, movies and literature. If that makes sense.

[Gadagirl]

Originally Posted by Oeanda

Out of curiosity, and I really don’t mean to push any buttons, is the idea of ‘bugging out’ from an apocalyptic future mainly just an American one- or is prevalent anywhere else? I haven’t come across the survivalist idea elsewhere in my travels. I haven’t been to Europe though- is it a thing there? I mainly only see it here in Canada among American immigrants. Never came across it in South America or Asia that I noticed.

I’m not talking about refugees from actual current famine, war, and abject poverty. I’m talking more about pop culture, movies and literature. If that makes sense.

LOL hahaha hahaha Do you mean like these guys?

[Oeanda]

Ha ha. Can’t see it. It says the video is not available in my country

[Gadagirl]

Originally Posted by Oeanda

Ha ha. Can’t see it. It says the video is not available in my country

So sorry, it's a parady showing different types of Americans deessed in camo, in different situations from grocery shopping, to playing paint ball, to storming the capital, to having a beer in a bar. All of them dressed in camo and some trying out military "lingo". As compared to real military veterans at the bar showing little respect toward the pretender.

Daily Show's 'Almost Veterans Day' Tribute Earns Its Stripes By Mocking Fake Soldiers
These dudes need to cool it with the camouflage.

"The Defense Department points out that Veterans Day honors “all of those who have served the country in war or peace — dead or alive — although it’s largely intended to thank living veterans for their sacrifices.”

But what about the pretenders ― where’s their day?

“The Daily Show With Trevor Noah” on Wednesday made sure wannabe warriors got their due in a sarcastic tribute called “Almost Veterans Day.” It’s for the “almost brave Americans who didn’t serve but want everyone to think they did.” (Watch the video below.)

The clip points out a few types you might know ― the guy who “brings the SEAL Team 6 lingo to paintball” or wears a “patriotic T-shirt with too many words on it.”

The spoof also mocked the insurrectionists whose camouflage “you heroically wore to the Capitol on Jan. 6 with your brand of brothers who you bravely turned in to the FBI two weeks later.”

Happy Almost Veterans Day!"

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/almos...b0ab5f2846b15f

[Tetepare]

Originally Posted by Oeanda

Out of curiosity, and I really don’t mean to push any buttons, is the idea of ‘bugging out’ from an apocalyptic future mainly just an American one- or is prevalent anywhere else? I haven’t come across the survivalist idea elsewhere in my travels. I haven’t been to Europe though- is it a thing there? I mainly only see it here in Canada among American immigrants. Never came across it in South America or Asia that I noticed.

I’m not talking about refugees from actual current famine, war, and abject poverty. I’m talking more about pop culture, movies and literature. If that makes sense.

The term is typically used in more rural areas, though the action is focused on more urban and/or northern areas. It is an act or plan to act to remove one's self from danger, or lack of resources.

When COVID was slamming NYC, rich NYC people bugged out to their expensive second homes in Upstate NY.

Those in Canada and US midwest would speak of bugging out to their hunting cabins where they have generators and some food.

When Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans, they should have long bugged out; they had plenty of warning. A couple years later Tikopia Island was hit by a Cat 5 cyclone much stronger than Katrina, and with little warning. Nobody died. They didn't bug out- they had no where to go. What they were was prepared for SHTF.

The "survivalist idea" is prevalent almost everywhere. In Norway & Sweden, it's head for the camp. In South Pacific, it's inland- and they stockpile food (they don't eat poi because it tastes good, it has a purpose.) Now, in Germany where you gonna go- your Schwebergarten? Not much good that will do anyone. During WW2 the French Jews and their sympathizers bugged out for the mountains. And on and on.

When NE USA lost electrical power (and with it lights, bars, and gas pumps) I bugged out to my boat, grilled a steak, cranked up some Ozzy, and turned every light on.

Not sure where a "survivalist idea" really starts. I keep spare clothes in the truck. I have a generator. We have enough canned goods and dry goods to last more than a month; we know the outdoors and could survive (unhappily) with no power or services through winter, which the Senecas called "The Dying Time". We know how to ice fish, I know when the suckers, trout, and bullhead spawn. We wear wool clothing, not cotton. Is that survivalist or just good planning?

Hope that helps.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Oeanda

Out of curiosity, and I really don’t mean to push any buttons, is the idea of ‘bugging out’ from an apocalyptic future mainly just an American one- or is prevalent anywhere else? I haven’t come across the survivalist idea elsewhere in my travels. I haven’t been to Europe though- is it a thing there? I mainly only see it here in Canada among American immigrants. Never came across it in South America or Asia that I noticed.

I’m not talking about refugees from actual current famine, war, and abject poverty. I’m talking more about pop culture, movies and literature. If that makes sense.

No it’s mainly an American one. Americans of a certain ilk perceive government as a temporary little thing and perceive it will fall apart.

[Tetepare]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

No it’s mainly an American one. Americans of a certain ilk perceive government as a temporary little thing and perceive it will fall apart.

False.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Tetepare

False.

.. that doesn't seem to square with your earlier statement that

those concerned about SHTF have generally lost confidence in anyone actually fixing things.

I think we all agree that everyone should be able to get along unaided for at least a week, and holing up in your cabin or boat during the worst of COVID.. I think that's just called 'privilege' ...but the whole stockpiling a personal arsenal and planning for some sort of lengthy apocalypse and/or social breakdown... kind of unique.

[jeanathon]

Originally Posted by Oeanda

Out of curiosity, and I really don’t mean to push any buttons, is the idea of ‘bugging out’ from an apocalyptic future mainly just an American one- or is prevalent anywhere else? I haven’t come across the survivalist idea elsewhere in my travels. I haven’t been to Europe though- is it a thing there? I mainly only see it here in Canada among American immigrants. Never came across it in South America or Asia that I noticed.

I’m not talking about refugees from actual current famine, war, and abject poverty. I’m talking more about pop culture, movies and literature. If that makes sense.

No it's not just an American thing. I know people in Western Europe who are stock piling things to protect themselves. When you look at the total anarchy New Orleans became after Katrina it does not take much imagination to see how your country could strip away the thin veil of civilization.

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by jeanathon

No it's not just an American thing. I know people in Western Europe who are stock piling things to protect themselves. When you look at the total anarchy New Orleans became after Katrina it does not take much imagination to see how your country could strip away the thin veil of civilization.

There are very few people in Europe who one would call "Peppers" in the US if you compare their numbers to the overall population.

In western Europe even less than in the former eastern block states.

People who try to be self sufficient (be it on land or water) do this more out of economical and ecological motives over here.

[Tetepare]

I don’t understand the interest in what other people do. If they want to load up a cabin, or a boat, with a year of supplies, that’s their business.

The original question is if a boat is a good plan for SHTF. It is, in the right conditions. The boat is mobile, can avoid situations, has food, and it’s own power.

Added benefit is you can go out and wear nothing, or wear camo, and there are no Karens who have to give you their ignorant opinion. And you can listen to Carmen or Motley Crue and not hear any bitchin either.