Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

[GothVanhellsing]

Well I am done being mad at the town dock a friend just pointed this out to me and as they have now at least printed my side of things that is a step in the right direction. Anchorage Boat Captain Defends His Stay | Letters To The Editor | TownDock.net, Oriental NC

But have to say to the cruisers here that care about rights and how the laws are crafted please fill out one of these
http://www.townoforiental.com/vertic...r_Festival.pdf

[Sand Castle]

Originally Posted by GothVanhellsing

Aaaaa one of the better strawman arguments, If you are Then pass a law that requires land based septic systems get inspected more often. It's fact that more then 85% of our water contamination comes from land. But don't take my (or the dnr's) word for it, just look at the water out in the middle of the harbor and then look at it near the shore. not to mention have you seen the large scale sand blasting out there lately? and lets not even get into the runoff water from people's lawns, and agro, all those chemicals and that pig poop goes somewhere when it rains. Maybe I don't want to be in water that has runoff from the weed killer people on land spray around their yards all the time.

No argument there, but the assumption is that boaters who have much more at stake than land-dwellers respect and treasure their water environment more - yes?

I don't like picking up my dog's poop when he goes, but to be a good neighbor, I do. With a bag - to be clear.

[Sand Castle]

Originally Posted by Doodles

This has nothing to do with being a Vet or foreign wars or politicians but with a few boats hogging a very limited public space. It's about sharing.

It truly is. And Gothvanhellsing is caught up in the fray because his boat and two others are in the space. The issue is length of time and sharing. Passing cruisers have openly stated on blogs and editorials to towndock.net that they will no longer stop in Oriental for that reason. That's not Towndock's fault, individual cruisers say this.

I am not privy to the messages Gothvanhellsing gets in the town. So individuals could be alot more acerbic to his plight than me. But I do say that others should have access to the anchorage without three, now four boats just constantly sitting there.

It's not an assault on his (human, American or veteran's) rights to say that he and the other anchored boats have been there an inordinate amount of time, just observation and fact.

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by GothVanhellsing

I love when people jump into this thread without even taking a little time to read the original letter. Also it is, why because you decided it is? I have stated not only in the original post but more then a few times this week I am moving the boat. Not because of anything that website or it's followers have printed or the tactics they have used but because someone asked me nicely if I would voluntarily relinquish my right to lawfully be there and make room for the fall snowbirds.

I love people who complain to the world in boating forums....

I did read the letter...just so you can't puff out your chest...it doesn't change my views or my posts in the slightest...

Yes because I decided it...laughable....me and about everyone else except guys that agree with you.

Do you have to be asked to do things that are considerate??? Or can you figure them out on your own??? That to me is the real mark of a man....or woman....

[Sand Castle]

Originally Posted by DaleM

The town has no choice but to do something, but what? There are many people there that are former cruisers or want to cruise in the future. Everyone hoped that the permanent boats would take the hint and leave. Now they may have to regulate, something no one wants to do.

Dale

The semi-permanent anchorers have truly forced the issue. Honestly, had they simply cruised about rather than linger continuously, there would be no issue. But like a guest who never leaves, eventually the host gets tired of that. It's not meanness, it's the guest who has exhausted the host's courtesy. Now, rather than common courtesy legislation must be used.

That's against the interests of all cruisers, but the permanent guests have driven it home to that conclusion.

[GothVanhellsing]

Originally Posted by ohdrinkboy

Actuallly Goth towns and cities in NC can force land owners to make repairs, cut grass, etc. Why should it be different with boats that are in disrepair?

can they force you to paint it a different color, or force you to have different pictures. No the things your talking about have to do with health and safety. They can not force you to make it look pretty, without an overriding public need they can't force a land owner to do anything.

[GothVanhellsing]

Originally Posted by Sand Castle

The semi-permanent anchorers have truly forced the issue. Honestly, had they simply cruised about rather than linger continuously, there would be no issue. But like a guest who never leaves, eventually the host gets tired of that. It's not meanness, it's the guest who has exhausted the host's courtesy. Now, rather than common courtesy legislation must be used.

That's against the interests of all cruisers, but the permanent guests have driven it home to that conclusion.

I don't know where you're from but where I come from common courtesy starts with politely asking someone.

[Sand Castle]

Originally Posted by GothVanhellsing

I count more then 6 there



This is really about what my letter says and not any of the things you believe it is, because you visit once in a while and read the towncrock. I live on my boat I don't leave it for months, and once again there have always been a few live abaords in the harbor. Some have staid months some years.

What's wrong with this picture is it fails to account for the prevailing South-westerlies which blow strong from the right side of the frame, many days 10-15 knots average. You've posted someone's sales brochure or the "perfect day". Goth, you're using that picture to make an unrealistic argument to fool your readers. This is deceptive of the true conditions in that part of the harbor. "C'mon, Man!"

Not only that, but it appears to be an older picture, where the right two boats would interfere with the marked channel entrance to Pecan Grove Marina, and thus be a hazard to navigation.

[GothVanhellsing]

Originally Posted by Sand Castle

What's wrong with this picture is it fails to account for the prevailing South-westerlies which blow strong from the right side of the frame, many days 10-15 knots average. You've posted someone's sales brochure or the "perfect day". Goth, you're using that picture to make an unrealistic argument to fool your readers. This is deceptive of the true conditions in that part of the harbor. "C'mon, Man!"

Not only that, but it appears to be an older picture, where the right two boats would interfere with the marked channel entrance to Pecan Grove Marina, and thus be a hazard to navigation.

okay so subtract the 2 boats. Also most times here the winds are calm to 10kts I have been anchored out there in that part of the harbor before it's not that bad when you get the rocking and rolling from the river in winds around 10-15kts. there is really a very small window when it becomes bad because the lee from the land on the other side blocks allot too I am using a picture from a day when a number of boats were here. So your saying the picture in unrealistic because once and a while we get a stiff sw wind? because I am looking outside right now and there is no wind like it has been 5 out of the last 7 days. But hey there would be room for a lot more boats if not for that marina that the town let take most of the space. No one is asking them to move.

[Sand Castle]

Originally Posted by GothVanhellsing

I don't know where you're from but where I come from common courtesy starts with politely asking someone.

Honestly, I'm not unsympathetic to your plight of your shoulder and freedom to drop the hook in a place of your choosing. And I don't know what (unkind words) your ears have heard. I know some cattiness exists within Oriental's community as it does with many.

My general point has been and always will be, that there's a limit to courtesy, and it's silent courtesy that the town has no law limiting the time spent in the anchorage. It's an implied courtesy. It is however an explicit ordinance that you cannot dock at the free dock more than 48 hours.

Now, assuming you're thoughtful and cognitively functional, you would think about the free dock and the free anchorage and ration that a stay more than a month might create SOME reaction. Would this necessarily be a positive reaction? Are you Gandhi? Have you in some way made all the town's taxes go away, changed water to wine, or eliminated Algebra?

I honestly don't think you've performed any of those miracles, so my point is, in a public area, where your and the other boats stay, has been inordinately long. People who live in town will take notice, normal for human nature. So unless you're performing the above-said miracles, human nature will pretty much trend downward. Sorry, but welcome to your species.

A reasonable person would surmise a reasonable length of time. For me, I think a month is okay. After that, I start thinking what's going on. Ultimately as cruisers have commented, they're passing Oriental by because of the anchorage. So the stay of the three boats is having a detrimental effect on the economy of the town.

Pink boat, red boat, or love boat - the effect would be the same.

[GothVanhellsing]

Originally Posted by psneeld

I love people who complain to the world in boating forums....

I did read the letter...just so you can't puff out your chest...it doesn't change my views or my posts in the slightest...

Yes because I decided it...laughable....me and about everyone else except guys that agree with you.

Do you have to be asked to do things that are considerate??? Or can you figure them out on your own??? That to me is the real mark of a man....or woman....

That is the way it normally works that the people except people that agree with you are the ones that disagree with you.


You know I would of never even known about the problem if the letters on the website were not pointed out to me. So the mark of a man or woman is having mind reading magical powers? With an attitude like that no wonder most of the people today are at each other's throats.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by GothVanhellsing

But hey there would be room for a lot more boats if not for that marina that the town let take most of the space. No one is asking them to move.

The marina's paying property and other taxes that long-term liveaboards don't, yet the breakwall protects the liveaboards just as much as it protects the marina.

Goth, you haven't mentioned - how much do the non-moving anchored-out boats pay to the city, who presumably built and maintain the harbour?

[CatInHand]

Originally Posted by GothVanhellsing

But hey there would be room for a lot more boats if not for that marina that the town let take most of the space. No one is asking them to move.

I imagine that they are paying for the privilege. You, too, could pay to stay at the marina and not have to worry about being bullied out.

[ohdrinkboy]

Originally Posted by GothVanhellsing

can they force you to paint it a different color, or force you to have different pictures. No the things your talking about have to do with health and safety. They can not force you to make it look pretty, without an overriding public need they can't force a land owner to do anything.

No, and I never implied they could. You did.

However, they should be able to require a boat meet health and safety standards. Since several of these boats have dragged, safety of their anchoring is a valid concern.

[GothVanhellsing]

Originally Posted by Sand Castle

Honestly, I'm not unsympathetic to your plight of your shoulder and freedom to drop the hook in a place of your choosing. And I don't know what (unkind words) your ears have heard. I know some cattiness exists within Oriental's community as it does with many.

My general point has been and always will be, that there's a limit to courtesy, and it's silent courtesy that the town has no law limiting the time spent in the anchorage. It's an implied courtesy. It is however an explicit ordinance that you cannot dock at the free dock more than 48 hours.

Now, assuming you're thoughtful and cognitively functional, you would think about the free dock and the free anchorage and ration that a stay more than a month might create SOME reaction. Would this necessarily be a positive reaction? Are you Gandhi? Have you in some way made all the town's taxes go away, changed water to wine, or eliminated Algebra?

I honestly don't think you've performed any of those miracles, so my point is, in a public area, where your and the other boats stay, has been inordinately long. People who live in town will take notice, normal for human nature. So unless you're performing the above-said miracles, human nature will pretty much trend downward. Sorry, but welcome to your species.

A reasonable person would surmise a reasonable length of time. For me, I think a month is okay. After that, I start thinking what's going on. Ultimately as cruisers have commented, they're passing Oriental by because of the anchorage. So the stay of the three boats is having a detrimental effect on the economy of the town.

Pink boat, red boat, or love boat - the effect would be the same.

Even the town dock admits boats staying for extended periods is nothing new. Though they try to downplay it by using only one boat that was pretty much abandoned in the harbor as their example.