Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

[familycruisers]

Originally Posted by Morgan3820

As a local with skin in the discussion I disagree. How'bout you invite him to move down with you in WPB?...I thought so...

Well, if you have skin in, might want to pass along that my wife and I decided to scratch Oriental off our list as well. Just saying.

[SkiprJohn]

Originally Posted by Morgan3820

First off, your veteran status has nothing to do with this discussion of your behavior. But since you brought it up, I find invoking your past to engender sympathy for your bad behavior to be disingenuous. I work with active duty Marines and most are fine people but I think that they would not approve. Service men and women today are extremely well compensated, which is fine. But there are plenty of other Americans that spend their entire careers serving the nation in difficult poorly paid capacities. EMTs see way more broken bodies than most military but make less than a burger flipper and receive little public adulation. Then there are nurses, firefighters, ...

As I reread the original post I believe the poster mentioned his service as experience in foreign ports where Americans are looked down upon in general as a comparison to how he is treated in Oriental. I didn't consider it as a sympathy ploy.

Service men and women may be well compensated compared to burger flippers but not for the work or the time they invest. Never was there enough money to compensate an individual for going into a war zone knowing they might not be coming back and especially for six months to a year at a time. Their jobs in a combat zone are 24/7 not 9 to 5.

Somehow working with Marines hasn't given you much insight. Any of them tell you about combat?

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by SkiprJohn

As I reread the original post I believe the poster mentioned his service as experience in foreign ports where Americans are looked down upon in general as a comparison to how he is treated in Oriental. I didn't consider it as a sympathy ploy.

Service men and women may be well compensated compared to burger flippers but not for the work or the time they invest. Never was there enough money to compensate an individual for going into a war zone knowing they might not be coming back and especially for six months to a year at a time. Their jobs in a combat zone are 24/7 not 9 to 5.

Somehow working with Marines hasn't given you much insight. Any of them tell you about combat?

The words "extremely well compensated" was enough for me to ignore the whole post...as that is an extremely exaggerated comment....made me think what else might be.

It's a complicated subject that will never get debated fairly here or in congress so I just let it go....especially when we try and compare day to day jobs where people go home to their sig other and house and sleep every night with military deployments...wow...what a shortsighted argument....notice how I left out the "risks involved"...but I'll also be the first to admit how many criminal there are wearing uniforms...breaking the laws on a daily basis and taking pay for a selfserving career that has no public interest in mind...yep..way too complicated for a CF debate.

Whether the OP used service to lay a foundation of experience or a foundation for sympathy...it has been clearly stated that neither is applicable because it's all about courtesy/sharing/etc...etc...

[tamicatana]

Here's the story of the red boat:
Primadonna | The Shipping News | TownDock.net, Oriental NC

I think it interesting that although thief claimed to be 'hungry,' the shoplifting garnered coffee and Nutella...

...a look at the pictures will show a lighter on the table in the boat. These people apparently can afford cigarettes?

...just because you haven't got money, doesn't mean you can't afford to spend the time to keep the boat lines run tidy and the boat itself fairly tidy, even if you can't paint it. If you aren't working, you have time...

It's not just stinkin' of fish in Denmark

[GothVanhellsing]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

1. The boat in the picture clearly meets the definition, so it is the proper term.
2. The "throw away the trash" is a spurious arguement.
- There has always been a need to balance rights when they come into conflict between two groups. (sleeping on a park bench is a perfect example)
- The right to anchor in public waters is centered around allowing transit of the waterways and securing the vessel from danger. It is not intended to allow someone to live permanently in the public domain.
- The right to anchor is balanced against the rights of those who would be damaged by it. Derelict boats hurt property values and drive away tourists hurting local buisnes. So there must be a balanced approach.

I'm curious if the OP bothered to contact his representative in a calm and logical manner to discuss why it was a bad idea to create rules. I suspect not because he was busy (?) waiting for them to ask him to leave, which presumably would have elicited even greater wails of abuse and discrimination. Comes across as rather passive/agressive.

So now Derelict means you don't think it looks pretty?
Let me be clear here because I see you using the term that the towncrock web site loves to throw around. THERE ARE NO DERELICT BOATS IN ORIENTAL HARBOR. the french boat does have a bad starter but can move under it's own power and the other two are able to safely move under their own power as well.

[psneeld]

if the boats can move and they have been there more than a week or so......it's time to let other cruisers enjoy the harbor.

[GothVanhellsing]

Originally Posted by psneeld

if the boats can move and they have been there more than a week or so......it's time to let other cruisers enjoy the harbor.

I love when people jump into this thread without even taking a little time to read the original letter. Also it is, why because you decided it is? I have stated not only in the original post but more then a few times this week I am moving the boat. Not because of anything that website or it's followers have printed or the tactics they have used but because someone asked me nicely if I would voluntarily relinquish my right to lawfully be there and make room for the fall snowbirds.

[GothVanhellsing]

Originally Posted by tamicatana

Here's the story of the red boat:
Primadonna | The Shipping News | TownDock.net, Oriental NC

I think it interesting that although thief claimed to be 'hungry,' the shoplifting garnered coffee and Nutella...

...a look at the pictures will show a lighter on the table in the boat. These people apparently can afford cigarettes?

...just because you haven't got money, doesn't mean you can't afford to spend the time to keep the boat lines run tidy and the boat itself fairly tidy, even if you can't paint it. If you aren't working, you have time...

It's not just stinkin' of fish in Denmark

Trust me if not for that story in the towncrock they would of already moved on. I watched for days after they printed that people driving up and giving them food, dog food, and money. That guy has drank away at least 3 starters worth of other people's money.

[SVNeko]

Originally Posted by GothVanhellsing

I have stated not only in the original post but more then a few times this week I am moving the boat. Not because of anything that website or it's followers have printed or the tactics they have used but because someone asked me nicely if I would voluntarily relinquish my right to lawfully be there and make room for the fall snowbirds.

Well then, what's all the fuss about. Just move on already so they don't have reason to enact a restrictive new anchoring law.

[CatInHand]

Originally Posted by GothVanhellsing

Trust me if not for that story in the towncrock they would of already moved on. I watched for days after they printed that people driving up and giving them food, dog food, and money. That guy has drank away at least 3 starters worth of other people's money.

It seems like he's a big part of your problem...

[Boatguy30]

I haven't followed all the French boat thing, but can't they just get him on 60 or 90 days in NC waters whatever he law is without NC rego? no doubt they'll turn up here in St Johns county waters at some point.

[GothVanhellsing]

Originally Posted by SVNeko

Well then, what's all the fuss about. Just move on already so they don't have reason to enact a restrictive new anchoring law.

If you think when I move it will stop anything you are sadly misguided, and really don't know the history of the owners of the towncrock. keep in mind they are the same ones who pushed and pushed for a very unneeded noise ordnance back in 08 because they bought a house too close to a place that had live bands every weekend. Oddly at the beginning of their war on fun in 08 is around the same time the towns tourism in this started dropping. Now their little click of friends is trying to close down the steamers, the only place in this town with pool tables, games, and is the only business that is open past 10:00 pm

[GothVanhellsing]

Originally Posted by CatInHand

It seems like he's a big part of your problem...

Before him no one (or at least very few) cared about live-aboards in the harbor, because there has always have been some. He is the geneses of the problem but also the way that website bullies to get their way just wrong. Now we need to let the town know what cruisers want or they will pass laws based on what they feel we want.
Everyone who cares fill one of these out and send it to them
http://www.townoforiental.com/vertic...r_Festival.pdf

[GothVanhellsing]

Originally Posted by DaleM

I have been going down to Oriental for 15 years. I have had a boat in a marina near there for years, we just moved there this year.

The issue is not about anchoring rights. That argument is a deflection, a smoke screen. The issue is about permanent unregulated moorings. (And before someone says they are anchored, they have not moved this summer. If they claim they are anchored then leave for a couple of months and then come back). Oriental has no regulations when it comes to anchoring but in the past boats would anchor, stay a while, then move on.

The real issues are:
A cruiser friendly town where cruisers stop a while then leave.
A very small anchorage that can hold six boats well, plus the free dock can hold two more.
Now four boats have taken up permanent anchorage. Four out of six spots.
Now only four cruisers can anchor / dock free and it used to be eight.
The permanent boats are taking away your rights to visit the town.
Two of the boats drug during the last storm and were aground, one leaking diesel into the harbor.


Let me tell you what is going through my mind. I used to like to go to Beaufort, NC for the weekend. It has become a permanent and unregulated mooring field. I now have to anchor very far away to dinghy into town. Is this going to happen to Oriental but at a quicker pace because of the smaller area?

So why shouldn't I put down a mooring and move my boat there first to get my spot and quit paying dock fees? Tell me why I shouldn't do that? There are no laws on the books to stop me. If I did that and just a few others did that then no one could see Oriental by boat unless they paid for a slip.

I know someone that has a derelict boat and has quit paying slip fees. Why shouldn't they move the boat there where it is free and permanent and block your use of the harbor?

If I'm thinking about putting down a mooring then so are others. If the town leaders don't do something, then this town will be shut down as cruising destination within a year and it will be shut down by semi-permanent anchors (unregulated moorings).

The town has no choice but to do something, but what? There are many people there that are former cruisers or want to cruise in the future. Everyone hoped that the permanent boats would take the hint and leave. Now they may have to regulate, something no one wants to do.

Dale

I count more then 6 there



This is really about what my letter says and not any of the things you believe it is, because you visit once in a while and read the towncrock. I live on my boat I don't leave it for months, and once again there have always been a few live abaords in the harbor. Some have staid months some years.

[ohdrinkboy]

Originally Posted by GothVanhellsing

So now Derelict means you don't think it looks pretty?
Let me be clear here because I see you using the term that the towncrock web site loves to throw around. THERE ARE NO DERELICT BOATS IN ORIENTAL HARBOR. the french boat does have a bad starter but can move under it's own power and the other two are able to safely move under their own power as well.

Actuallly Goth towns and cities in NC can force land owners to make repairs, cut grass, etc. Why should it be different with boats that are in disrepair?