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joelhemington · 13-08-2020, 10:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeeBee

So I just put money down on my first boat, an '83 Endeavour 33. The plan is to really get comfortable sailing around Lake Michigan (Chicago, USA) until I retire in a few years then take off for the Atlantic. Follow the sun and avoid hurricanes. I expect to do longer and longer stints (I have lots of vacation time) to learn the lifestyle.

While I'm still employed I can afford to add the stuff I'll need/want.

The boat already has an autohelm, but I might add a windvane auto helm to conserve power, less reliant on electronics and also for backup.

I also built a DIY chart plotter (with AIS receiver) that seems to work in my livingroom. (total cost was about $300)

For those of you who have been cruising for a while, what are you must haves, would like to have, maybe if I hit the jackpot, I don't want and those things you added but never use?

First off, I'd make sure I had a good reliable dingy with a motor that actually works. The Yamaha 15hp seems to be a popular choice for many cruisers. Assuming all other critical systems are operating, I'd consider a water maker as some of the marina water can be quite sketchy. If your plan is to head to the Caribbean, you may find yourself well offshore to miss the Gulf Steam along the Eastern seaboard. You'll definitely want AIS at least - radar would be nice but less necessary. I'd sail it around awhile before jumping on a bunch of stuff you'll never use. Predict Wind or other weather analysis tools would also be critical. While I think that wind vanes are very cool, they're also very expensive. If your current AP works, I'd save that money for other things (you'll need it

).

TomThumb · 13-08-2020, 11:15

Everyone telling you to 'wait and see' is right...

BUT, so too are those saying to address survey-found major/critical systems (engine, through hull fittings, standing rigging, osmosis etc)...

BUT, there is a middle ground here. Some improvements will become clear early, like if you have a shitty dinghy already.

Make a wish list beyond those essentials, prioritise it and then build a budget for them. Some survey items will flag things that 'will need replacing' at a future time. Bringing forward some will be a choice but may mean peace of mind, like an alternator, batteries etc.

If you plan to retire then having this will help identify which upgrade or addition to buy first and while you are still earning and also in a fixed location where follow-up support/warranty work etc is easier than once you hit the road. Most jobs will be progressive, some dependent on being out of the water, some prolonged and better done out of season to maximise on-water time and so on.

A budgeted list will help you plan and when you are debating one thing over another you'll have a starting point that resists the attraction to shiny things.

alansmith · 13-08-2020, 11:37

Get rid of the toilet and nasty tubing and tank. Put a composter head in there like a cheap C-head. If your fabulously wealthy, smile, Nature’s Head or Airhead. You can thank me later.

I upgraded my Autohelm to a much beefier Pelagic AP. In the last Transpac race to Hawaii I think over 80% of the racers used it. Not one of the units failed on the race. I now keep my autohelm as backup.

I don’t know what the interior of your cabin is like. But having a 12 volt fridge makes a huge difference in boating versus nada. I run my Engle as a freezer. I have a Yeti-knockoff as my cool box. I swap one liter reused soda canisters between the cool box and freezer. I think my Engle uses about 40-50 amp/ hrs in a day. Wonderful to have cheese, yogurt, cold beer, cold cuts, and the like. I only have to change bottles out every 4-5 days. You can pick up a Yeti like 20-30 liter for about 125 bucks. Worth every penny.

Listen, mate, sitting in the sun is no joke. You need some sort of sun protection in the cockpit. Either a cloth Bimini or hardtop eventually must be considered. It is a big topic. With rain covers and skeeter netting valuable upgrades a must for me.

I agree take your time and plan out priorities in acquisition phase.

Macblaze · 13-08-2020, 12:02

Going back over my "must buy list" from just after my offer was accepted, the only things I actually ended up buying in the interceding years was a new anchor, a BMS (battery monitor) and a new stereo with usb inputs. The only one of those we bought before our first cruise was the anchor (a nice new rocna to replace the bruce).

Everything else we have spend money on since then wasn't on the list

Clivevon · 13-08-2020, 13:53

"You could spend the next year just getting the boat you bought to the condition you thought you bought it in.,,,Stuff always needs to be repaired, replaced." Oh, so true, so true...

Jono as 2234 · 13-08-2020, 14:11

As with all the other guys, wait for a year or so. On my first long trip, the trades got a bit out of hand and we spent lots of days banged up in uninhabited bays waiting for better times. So I would add an oversized anchor with all chain rode and a decent TV etc. with lots of media
Jon

barnakiel · 13-08-2020, 14:36

"must-haves" :

a star, to sail her by,
time and money to burn + complete disrespect for what others will say,
a Gore-tex HQ parka, good (dry and warm) sailing shoes,
an lpg stove with OVEN, repeat OVEN,
big volume dry storage (for food, clothing, books, etc.),
large integral water tanks, optimally 100 gallons or better,
a HQ windvane,
a depth instrument,
solar energy, + good monitor with V and A in/out (shunted),
LED lights throughout,
an AIS, (SOTMA active, if money no object)
comfortable and safe sea-bunks,
a decent shower onboard, usable in the seaway,
a comfortable and simple head, usable underway,
new or nearly new sails,
a simple and safe reefing system,
a deep dodger and bimini,
dry, comfortable cockpit cushion (-s),
a near complete cockpit enclosure (can be improvised),
mosquito nets for all opening ports and hatches,
big / quality anchors and long chain,
a dinghy easy to stow and deploy,
a reliable auxiliary motor.

"maybies":

an extra nut to hold the tiller,
a cola cooler,
some form of gps,
charts for the area (paper charts, or guides with chartlets),
one locker full of duct tape, WD40 and related joys,
a spare sail,
a med kit (masking tape doubles, if the cut is minor),
tight blue swim trunks (if you like British culture, not required in France),
shades, polarized,
sun block (Hawaiian Tropic spf 100+, coconut taste), plenty,
a sun hat (one with a large brim - to protect the nose and ears),
a spare sun hat.

"noways":

cats (feline),
kids,
green items, even if these are useful,
heavy items of no use,
large items of no use,
superstitions,
expectations,
plans,
hopes,
timelines.

"whoops":

black trunks that hide rather than suggest,
black trunks with three white stripes,
any trunks (in France),
big national flags, I mean big ones,
asking ME if you have anchored too close,
anchoring right atop of ME,
asking me how long is my boat (she is 26'),
offending my local friends while you arrived to stock up rhum at our Carrefour,
arriving undressed for the carnival,
vomiting overboard, on the side where our dinghies are tied up.

Basically, anything goes, just make sure the boat is easy to run, you are having fun and you are giving more than you are taking.

Cheers,
b.

dcareri · 14-08-2020, 05:46

Waiting a while to see what you really need/want is good advice.

However.... buy it all before you leave the continental US. We've been in the Caribbean for 2 years and things we thought we'd by later are so hard to source on other islands or are prohibitively expensive to have shipped in.

JebLostInSpace · 15-08-2020, 17:19

While I agree with the advice to sail your boat and learn what bothers you on this particular boat, I can offer my personal experience ~6 months in to cruising full time. It may give you some ideas to look out for over the next months/years as you play with your own systems.

Changes I have made on the boat:
Improved ground tackle - for me this meant more chain. It could also mean a bigger anchor, secondary anchor, or extra rope rode. The point is, once I started relying on it every night, I wanted to be confident it was secure.

Added solar. The boat has a generator that could easily have kept the batteries topped up, and the extra fuel consumption would not have had a huge impact on my cruising range. However, one of the great joys of cruising on a [I]sail[I]boat is the nice calm quiet, whether underway or at anchor. The solar lets me have a lot more of these blissful quiet moments. If you don't already have some form of power generation, my opinion is that you are likely to discover you want one.

Water filtration. This one was cheap and easy. I filter water on the way into the tank through a simple RV filter that is made to attach to a garden hose. I also filter drinking water on the way out of the tap in the galley with an under-sink filter. The peace of mind this system offers when filling up at marinas with unknown water standards is great.

I'm installing a new prop next week. Mine is pretty badly under-pitched, and the new one should give me a significant improvement in speed under power, as well as control in tight marinas. Unless this is also a problem for you, I personally wouldn't bother getting a new one just for the fancy folding/feathering prop options, but that's just my view.

Installed a windlass remote control. This was really just an upgrade for single-handing. It's useful when raising anchor in windy conditions, when I need to frequently cycle between using the engine to pull up to the anchor, and running the windlass up. If not single-handing, I wouldn't bother with this, plus you need to be careful not the damage the boat using the powerful windlass motor when the chain is snagged, and you can't see it from the cockpit.

Replaced aging/broken parts. This was super important. For me the list included a head pump, one fuel line, the main sheet, a few blocks, deck shower, and probably a few dozen things I've forgotten. The survey identified several of these issues, but I also uncovered plenty in my first few weeks of sailing.

Changes I would like to make when time/money allow:
New dinghy & outboard. The dinghy has a slow leak in one pontoon, and pumping it up daily is a real pain. The engine would likely be fine with a new carb, but as is it often struggles to idle. It's also a little under-powered, and I can't get the dink up on plane with 3 people in it. None of this is such a big deal I'm willing to drop $5k fixing it, but it's high on the "would be nice" list.

New sails. I'm still running the 20-year-old original sails, and they've blown out fairly significantly. I definitely feel it when beating upwind, but otherwise don't notice too much, so I'm sticking with them for now.

A deeper reef in the main. I have only 2 reefs, and have occasionally felt overpowered in the second reef with the jib rolled out halfway. In true storm conditions (I've thankfully not had to sail in more than 30 kts so far), I would be pretty uncomfortable. So far I've stayed inshore enough to avoid those situations, but I'd like to venture further offshore, and feel I need a better storm canvas solution to do so.

Bigger battery bank. I'm resisting this temptation because I think whatever batteries you have, you will find load to use it up. But when I do overnight sails I have to choose between the fridge and the auto-helm, which is somewhat annoying.

Composting head. I'm constantly battling the plumbing on my aft head. Composting heads sound really nice and simple.

Bigger inverter. I wish I could boil water for coffee/tea without the generator. I even got a super small, single-mug electric kettle, but the inverter still gets mad when I try to run it.

Equipment that I use constantly, but didn't expect to care about:
Electric winch. Another single-handing beauty. I wasn't looking for this when boat-shopping, but the boat I found had one, so cool. Turns out I love this thing. When I'm constantly fiddling with the auto helm and trying to hoist the main without getting tangled in the lazy jacks, the electric winch is absolutely wonderful.

Over-sized generator. Again, however much power you have available to use, you will end up using. I'm sure I could have lived without such a beefy power source, but I love being able to run everything at once, and have the generator on for a shorter period, rather than running things one at a time and needing the genny for 3 hours.

Air conditioning. Another one I'm sure I could live without. But when it's hot, and the boat is humid and starting to get musty/smelly, I pop that baby on for an hour and my life is so much nicer.

Freezer capable of making ice cubes. Ice cubes are another major life improver.

Equipment that came with the boat, but I never use it:
Radar. I've turned it on maybe 5 times, mostly just to play with it and try to learn how to use it effectively. Between PredictWind, AIS integrated into the chartplotter, and the chartplotter itself, I really haven't found much use for it.

SSB. Maybe if I was going further offshore I would learn to appreciate it. But as it is, I've never once used it. Maybe it will help the boat value when I eventually sell, but I'm not getting value out of it.

Grill mounted on the rail. Maybe this one is just cause mine is positioned awkwardly and doesn't get as hot as I would like, but I always seem to choose cooking down below over opening up the grill.

Water Heater. I've been in rather hot climes for my whole cruise so far. I really prefer the cold water shower when I'm overheated. Plus, I feel like I'm wasting water when I spend time adjusting the temp instead of getting to business.

This all just my long-winded 2 cents. Play around and figure out what's important to you.

sailorboy1 · 15-08-2020, 17:30

I still say wait for unneeded accessory boat upgrades, i will tell you one t hing to asap

A truly good mattress. Not an upgrade to a crappy one like a topper, but a truly good mattress!

stormalong · 15-08-2020, 17:59

Wow, so many responses here show that the posters did not read the OP's words or just don't understand Chicago sailing.

I sailed out of Chicago for over 20 years before going cruising. Most sailing in the south end of Lake Michigan is day sailing. A few weekend trips to the very few nearby towns and maybe a two week cruise once per summer.

You are sailing on fresh water. So clean you can drink it if you need to. No need for a watermaker.

Most destinations have marinas. A big dinghy with a big outboard in not needed and would be a waste. The OP is purchasing a 33 foot boat. Stowing a big dinghy would be a problem.

Most boats this size do not have much ground tackle and very few have a windlass.

Chicago harbors are 99% walk on floating docks with power and electricity. Very few mooring bouys exist there today. There are almost no cruising destinations with anchorages. Most have state run, reasonable fee marinas. There is no need for solar panels or big battery banks. A decent shore power battery charger is all that is needed.

The OP is buying this boat to learn how to sail. He may go cruising when he retires. That is most likely not on the boat he is buying now.

TeddyDiver · 15-08-2020, 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormalong

Wow, so many responses here show that the posters did not read the OP's words or just don't understand Chicago sailing.

I sailed out of Chicago for over 20 years before going cruising. Most sailing in the south end of Lake Michigan is day sailing. A few weekend trips to the very few nearby towns and maybe a two week cruise once per summer.

You are sailing on fresh water. So clean you can drink it if you need to. No need for a watermaker.

Most destinations have marinas. A big dinghy with a big outboard in not needed and would be a waste. The OP is purchasing a 33 foot boat. Stowing a big dinghy would be a problem.

Most boats this size do not have much ground tackle and very few have a windlass.

Chicago harbors are 99% walk on floating docks with power and electricity. Very few mooring bouys exist there today. There are almost no cruising destinations with anchorages. Most have state run, reasonable fee marinas. There is no need for solar panels or big battery banks. A decent shore power battery charger is all that is needed.

The OP is buying this boat to learn how to sail. He may go cruising when he retires. That is most likely not on the boat he is buying now.

Back at you, the OP said he's eventually going cruising offshore just learning and upgrading in current whereabouts..

stormalong · 15-08-2020, 22:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by TeddyDiver

Back at you, the OP said he's eventually going cruising offshore just learning and upgrading in current whereabouts..

... in a few years when he retires.

Sure buy a water maker that he can't use and will be technologically obsolete by the time he might use it. Buy a big dinghy with a 15 horsepower outboard that it too big to carry on his Endeavour 33. Put a windlass on a small light weight boat.

In a few years he will either be in a different boat or not go cruising. Spend a lot of money on things he can't use where he is and let it depreciate/deteriorate?

Right now he needs to learn how to sail, not how to load down his boat with stuff he doesn't need and may never need.

TeddyDiver · 16-08-2020, 04:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormalong

... in a few years when he retires.

Sure buy a water maker that he can't use and will be technologically obsolete by the time he might use it. Buy a big dinghy with a 15 horsepower outboard that it too big to carry on his Endeavour 33. Put a windlass on a small light weight boat.

In a few years he will either be in a different boat or not go cruising. Spend a lot of money on things he can't use where he is and let it depreciate/deteriorate?

Right now he needs to learn how to sail, not how to load down his boat with stuff he doesn't need and may never need.

You are right, no reason to think ahead

Even if he asks for things to consider especially that in mind. Besides nobody suggested to get everything at once...