Multihull or money aside

[chakil]

Don't stuck on the numbers , as I said numbers may vary in each country.
The purpose of the question is spending most of your money on a multihull and just keep a small extra portion for toys or fun OR spend less on a monohull have more money for toys and fun.
In both sceneraios you can easily pay the maintenance and cost of living..

[CatNewBee]

As I said, ask the Admiral.
Happy wife, happy life.

If you are comfortable with a monohull, go for it.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by chakil

Don't stuck on the numbers , as I said numbers may vary in each country.
The purpose of the question is spending most of your money on a multihull and just keep a small extra portion for toys or fun OR spend less on a monohull have more money for toys and fun.
In both sceneraios you can easily pay the maintenance and cost of living..

The problem is it's a numbers question and the numbers drive the answer Your numbers are so skewed that they are likely to drive you to an answer that may be incorrect. (they won't vary that much by country and multihulls aren't 3 times the cost of an equivalent monohull))

Unless you are purposely fudging the numbers to get the answer you want...any chance you want a mono and the wife wants a cat, so you are hoping to show how the mono makes more sense?

It's a sliding scale.
- If I could give up $50/month to get a boat I greatly preferred out of a $5000/month cruising budget, I would do so in a heartbeat.
- If I had to give up $3000/month to get a boat that is only marginally better out of a $5000/month, not a chance even though we could get by on $2000/month.

How about give us sample boats with asking prices so we can assess something close to the actual price difference and the difference in what the boats offer.

[CatNewBee]

It's not just the upfront investment, it's about maintenance and fees, age of the vessel, life style etc.

You can buy a neglected 43ft monohull for a very low price and refit it, you can buy a brand new monohull from factory, same for catamaran.

Anchorages are free, marinas are not. Haul out / antifouling cost 50%-100% more, engines service and maintenance +100% for a cat, sails are the same, rigging probably too. A cat offers more comfort and this systems need maintenance too. You can have them on both, so it depends (A/C, generator, watermaker, solar...) You definitely will spend more on cushions and toys on a cat, because you have the space. As far as I understood, you narrow your search to a Lagoon 40 only, no FP or Leopard, so the price depends on age (not so much), current state of maintenance (if buying used) and installed options.

The Lagoons have a long option list, you can easy spent 100k on options alone, that makes part of the price difference, also you look for a rare owners version - what makes things more complicated. If you look for a private yacht never been chartered, it will be much more expensive, VAT is paid. With a charter yacht (very rare) chances are there are fewer options and no VAT, also a discount because of the charter usage, more damages of course, so you can make a good deal. Large charter companies do the maintenance themselves, so you can negotiate some fixes of issues when buying.

Every vessel is different, so no general recommendation is possible. Also monohulls are very different, a bluewater Amel would be much more expensive than a coastal cruiser Janneau or Beneteau or what ever. Some monohulls are more expensive than a production cat.

[chakil]

Forget about the numbers , its the philosophy we need to talk about.
Do you prefer to get a monohull ,consider you can pay for your living and maintenance and have extra money in your pocket to buy extra toys or travel 3-4 months to some exotic places.
On the other hand,
you buy a multihull and you can pay for your living and maintenance but you have less left to enjoy.For you to understand less, 1 month travel and eating outside twice a week.

I am just trying to find a answer if its worth it to pay almost double price to live a similat life.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by chakil

Forget about the numbers , its the philosophy we need to talk about.
Do you prefer to get a monohull ,consider you can pay for your living and maintenance and have extra money in your pocket to buy extra toys or travel 3-4 months to some exotic places.
On the other hand,
you buy a multihull and you can pay for your living and maintenance but you have less left to enjoy.For you to understand less, 1 month travel and eating outside twice a week.

I am just trying to find a answer if its worth it to pay almost double price to live a similat life.

I would say not it's not worth paying double for a similar life style when on th boat...

BUT, if you are paying double for an equivalent catamaran, you got totally taken on the price...hence, you can't simply accept false numbers and talk about philosophy.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

Anchorages are free, marinas are not. Haul out / antifouling cost 50%-100% more, engines service and maintenance +100% for a cat, sails are the same, rigging probably too. A cat offers more comfort and this systems need maintenance too. You can have them on both, so it depends (A/C, generator, watermaker, solar...) You definitely will spend more on cushions and toys on a cat, because you have the space. As far as I understood, you narrow your search to a Lagoon 40 only, no FP or Leopard, so the price depends on age (not so much), current state of maintenance (if buying used) and installed options.

The Lagoons have a long option list, you can easy spent 100k on options alone, that makes part of the price difference, also you look for a rare owners version - what makes things more complicated. If you look for a private yacht never been chartered, it will be much more expensive, VAT is paid. With a charter yacht (very rare) chances are there are fewer options and no VAT, also a discount because of the charter usage, more damages of course, so you can make a good deal. Large charter companies do the maintenance themselves, so you can negotiate some fixes of issues when buying.

Every vessel is different, so no general recommendation is possible. Also monohulls are very different, a bluewater Amel would be much more expensive than a coastal cruiser Janneau or Beneteau or what ever. Some monohulls are more expensive than a production cat.

A lot of this comes back to defining an EQUIVILENT boat. In most cases a typical production 45' catamaran is a lot more boat than a 45' production monohull of similar quality, outfitting and condition. Once you upgrade the monohull to maybe 55', a lot of the extra costs and complications level out as there may only be one engine but it's much bigger and more expensive than the two small cat engines, slips may surcharge for a cat (depends greatly on where you are, we've never paid a surcharge) but jumping above 50' often puts you in a different price bracket in addition to the per foot charge... or for smaller marinas, you may be above the greatest length they accommodate. It gets messy to give a definitive statement but really for an equivalent boat, there isn't a great deal of ongoing cost difference or really up front purchase price difference.

[chakil]

Ok , I see you will not be happy unless I give you the numbers
2016+ Dufour 412GL or 2014 Beneteau Oceanis 41 almost at the same range 130.000€.
Or go for 2012 year 43 ft monohull which would be around the same price.
On the other hand;
Lagoon 400 which would be around 230.000€ . The difference is 100.000€.OK?
For that 100.000€ when you convert to currency in my country I can get %22-25 interest.
And that money is equal to 10 times min wage.

[CatNewBee]

We are in the 40ft range, but yes, that is right.

Well about philosophy, the answer is simple to us, we chose the cat.
We intent to live aboard the next years and want to do so on a level boat
and above the waterline.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by chakil

Ok , I see you will not be happy unless I give you the numbers
2016+ Dufour 412GL or 2014 Beneteau Oceanis 41 almost at the same range 130.000€.
Or go for 2012 year 43 ft monohull which would be around the same price.
On the other hand;
Lagoon 400 which would be around 230.000€ . The difference is 100.000€.OK?
For that 100.000€ when you convert to currency in my country I can get %22-25 interest.
And that money is equal to 10 times min wage.

Now we can get to the point of why you are coming up with a skewed question:
- Lagoon is a much larger boat than the Dufour or Beneteau. You are not comparing equivalent boats. If a significantly larger boat is worth the money is a much different question.
- 22% to 25% interest...if you can get that with any degree of security and year after year reliability, money is a total non-issue as you will have plenty for whatever you want to do. Back in the real world, you won't get anything close to that unless you are making incredibly risky bets in which case I would recommend the highest cost boat as that leaves less money in the investments that are likely to go belly up.

Not really relevant to the discussion:
- Local Minimum Wage
- Converting currency

Ultimately, only you can decide how much a larger more comfortable cruising platform is worth or what you are willing to risk on investments (I'm sure you will tell us how you can safely get 22-25% but it's not even worth debating).

[chakil]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Now we can get to the point of why you are coming up with a skewed question:
- Lagoon is a much larger boat than the Dufour or Beneteau. You are not comparing equivalent boats. If a significantly larger boat is worth the money is a much different question.
- 22% to 25% interest...if you can get that with any degree of security and year after year reliability, money is a total non-issue as you will have plenty for whatever you want to do. Back in the real world, you won't get anything close to that unless you are making incredibly risky bets in which case I would recommend the highest cost boat as that leaves less money in the investments that are likely to go belly up.

Not really relevant to the discussion:
- Local Minimum Wage
- Converting currency

Ultimately, only you can decide how much a larger more comfortable cruising platform is worth or what you are willing to risk on investments (I'm sure you will tell us how you can safely get 22-25% but it's not even worth debating).

Check the interest rates in Turkey. I can say your money is safe but can not guarantee you the value. Its a country of devaluations.

On the other hand I am not comparing Lagoon and Dufour.
I just ask do you throw that amount of money for the comfort of the Lagoon.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by chakil

On the other hand I am not comparing Lagoon and Dufour.
I just ask do you throw that amount of money for the comfort of the Lagoon.

So are you trying to compare equivalent mono's vs cat's?

or

Are you trying to assess the value of larger vs smaller boats...regardless of hulls?

[chakil]

I am not comparing the boats , I am comparing the life quality with a multihull vs monohull not only in terms of size,also in terms of what you can buy with the money left by spending less on a monohull.

[Peeew]

Everyone makes their own choices based on preferences lifestyle experience and goals I guess. I spent years (too many!) working, chartering, and saving for retirement. So when I retired I was faced with my goals of comfort and safety while spending a few months at a time cruising in the Bahamas in winter and US coast during the summers. I decided that singlehanded ability is important to me and the comfort of modern design and convenience is nice. For whatever reasons I just don’t like catamarans. To me the ride during a strong wind on a few days passage a longer monohull fits me. I ended up with a Jeanneau SO469 and am loving my choice. I could buy a stronger boat I know but so far nothing creaks or breaks despite some pretty rough days crossing the Gulf Stream and a few months in the Bahamas. I have no desire at this point to sail around the world, but so far I don’t see why I can’t on this boat. I’m happy which is what choices are all about. My first purchased boat and it is working out for me. My choice was a lot different that what I started looking for, but I’m glad I took the time and learned along the way what I really wanted to do what would be best for me.
Paul

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by chakil

I am not comparing the boats , I am comparing the life quality with a multihull vs monohull not only in terms of size,also in terms of what you can buy with the money left by spending less on a monohull.

If you buy equivalent boats, there is little, if any, extra money going with a monohull, so it's mostly a question of which layout do you prefer.

The wide open stable platform with good visibility all around vs living in a rocking cave is our preference. Since there isn't really much of any savings going monohull, we prefer cats.