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Old 02-03-2020, 05:59   #106
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Re: Low Cost Cruising Details

Reciprocal arrangements certainly seemed common on the lower Great Lakes. I say seemed because while we were sometimes yacht club members, we never took advantage of these deals, mainly because we didn't go to other marinas. But those that did certainly seemed to get a good deal at times.

With regard to claims about the poor, I think it is dangerous to stereotype or generalize. Most poor people are poor because they don't make enough money in the job(s) they have. And most have been dealt an unlucky hand to begin with, just like most rich people were dealt a lucky one.

But if we go much further down this road we'll end up in another bun fight. Lets not do that.

But to stay on topic, I do think there's an important difference between simply being cheap, and being frugal. Frugality is not just about buying the cheapest option, or looking for the best deal. It's mostly about knowing what you need, and then finding the best tool to fill that need. Often times this means spending more up front on an item if it is highly reliable, and built to last.
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Old 02-03-2020, 08:00   #107
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Re: Low Cost Cruising Details

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Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post
Haha!

Very funny!

I'm sorry that my closed seacocks scare you. (I didn't have hoses on the plugs of any of my previous boats either!!) Get a grip.

Speaking of seaworthiness ........do your homework before buying.

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Ooh, you can cut and paste, Iíll bet your mom is so proud. But you forgot to tell me that you raced beach cats once upon a time, thatís super important to let us all know that again... that and you neglected to present you excuse list, so get right on that. Just canít wait to read all of that titillating info again. Iíll drop in later after some snorkeling, and lunch, see ya.

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Old 02-03-2020, 08:32   #108
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Re: Low Cost Cruising Details

In my opinion expenses is money spent above and beyond "normal". An example would be going out to eat and paying $30 for a steak when buying and cooking the same steak would be $5 so if you are living the high life you will NEVER be able to afford cruising because of lack of self control. AlsoI don't understand why anyone would pay to dock or moor when they have a hook that would cost nothing. If you need shore power then it is time to invest in MORE SOLAR panels because what you pay for now saves later and wherever you go.
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Old 02-03-2020, 08:39   #109
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Re: Low Cost Cruising Details

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It's one of those cause and effect kind of things.

A lot of the same poor money handling habits also limit you to low income.
Learn to handle money well and you often will find opportunities coming your way and thus will no longer be low income.

Obviously, you could find an exception but most low income adults, I know for any length of time...there's a clear reason they are low income...and it isn't the system holding them down.

On threads like this you will find some stray people who have consciously chosen to step away from making more money for a simpler lifestyle...but they are the exception not the rule.

On a related note: While I appreciate and apply means of cutting expenses...at some point, it's more effort and hassle to save a dollar as opposed to earning a dollar.
The referenced 'cause and effect' thing commonly referred to as the rat race is more academically defined as the hedonic treadmill (more money=short-term happiness bump, then normalization requiring even more money to get a fix, rinse and repeat).

In the reality, which is the current reality, that so-called higher-income people are drowning in debt in essentially the same proportion as the stupid poor-money handling poor people...in fact the "low income" people are technically economically more wise. But recognizing this causes "smart" rich people internal conflict, and so the pick on they poor people. Such specific projection is not a new phenomenon in human history.

While it's true that at some point it's more effort to save than to earn money, some thoughtful and very conscientious people may correctly observe that a lot of work in society really doesn't contribute to society, such that many lines of work are theft, little different than burglary. Accordingly, there's actually more honor in accepting a government check than participating in a useless industry that overall harms people.

But again recognizing this is difficult for veterans of countless hedonic treadmill marathons. They lash out at the world and blame others for being inferior until they can come to terms with the common reality, figuring out how to be happy and safe with something less than 100% ideal.
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Old 02-03-2020, 10:14   #110
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Re: Low Cost Cruising Details

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AlsoI don't understand why anyone would pay to dock or moor when they have a hook that would cost nothing

For shore access on your dinghy. The few places to land a dinghy to get to shore in the keys are not secure. In Key West a gated dinghy dock is included in your mooring field cost.



Since I'm in this area long term the mooring field means the local water police will generally pass you by. The anchor outs get harrassed a little more. This is worth the little (relative to living on land) it costs me for a city mooring ball.
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Old 02-03-2020, 10:33   #111
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Re: Low Cost Cruising Details

Unfortunately, anchoring out is not really an option here in Hawaii - the powers that be (read: DLNR) do everything they can to discourage anchoring.

We'd MUCH rather be on teh hook that in a Marina
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Old 02-03-2020, 12:19   #112
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Re: Low Cost Cruising Details

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Thomm, I, at least, do enjoy your posts, not the least because they are so outrageously irrelevant. I don't think anyone doubts or disrespects your experience. But I also don't think anyone finds them to have anything much to do with what most of us do. I love beach cats, and, for that matter, smallish monohulls. I had a 33 foot monohull, at one time, TRULY ready for the sea, and sailed about 20,000 singlehanded miles on it. I also lived aboard that boat for 19 years and helped a number of others on sister ships to get going, as well. It had a few similarities with your Bristol, but it was way more thoroughly prepped. Now I have a 45 foot cat, which I have cruised from your beloved lower Chesapeake to Grenada and back and forth, and many places in between, coastal and offshore. I have lived on it for sixteen years, and cruised it by almost anyone's definition. It has nothing to do with your beach cat sailing, enjoyable though you and I might both find that to be. I remember when I first sailed a Hobie and asked myself if I could ever be content on another boat? But, of course, I couldn't cruise it other than for the most basic short trips, nor could I live aboard. It was a wonderful and enjoyable experience, but it has nothing to do with what I do now, or what many on this forum do. No matter how hard you try to skew things, that is the case, and it doesn't matter that you have responsibilities, or anything else. And, it doesn't help your credibility when you wildly mock those who have way more actual experience than you, while stating that three months on a boat is all you could stand. Many of us can't stand being dirt dwellers, and that includes myself, although we do understand that others might disagree. Heck, we were all dirt dwellers at some point! I suggest you give it a rest, and limit your assertions to things where you have actual experience and these assertions might be helpful and pertinent.
I like to give potential cruisers other information besides how great life is "on the hook" or at a marina especially if you are just motoring along the coast and jumping over to the Bahamas every now and then

Sometimes this is seen as being totally against cruising which I am not.

Because of this, I am attacked periodically and I respond......

As far as my posts being irrelevant, that's your opinion

Some of the "experienced cruisers" on here post things like banging halyards and wakes along the ICW. This is beginner stuff

As far as the beach cats, that was a fun time and I gained valuable experience which directly crosses to cruising especially on those races that took us offshore out of site of land as did my power boat experience in my early years from 16 years old as skipper on both bayside and seaside

Also knowing where low current will be can be helpful sailing in to shore in a tight area. Also being able at times to tell the approximate water depth by visual aids is good stuff to know

Beach cat racing also teaches you NOT to rely on an auxiliary engine but your more powerful sails. It also teaches you how to get the most out of those sails

Being on and around the water for most of a lifetime teaches you so much it would take pages to try and explain

With so many years on power boats and beach cats, you get a feel for being on the water. I'm not sure how this can be seen as irrelevent but again that's your opinion

The boat I have now is too small for me to cruise on, but I'll have to use it at first anyway. I'll be maintaining a home and a few automobiles while I cruise

I'm probably more of a fin keel, spade rudder guy than I am full keel type sailor, but it is what it is

Now though things have taken a turn in that I have discovered I can use my training in computer programming, computer maintenance, and electronics knowledge to build inexpensive electronics for my boat to include a chart plotter which I never really needed but it sure is nice to have.

Basically I can use those skills which have allowed me to make a living to make improvements at a low cost to my boat.

I have also routed the AIS from my VHF to be displaye on the OpenCPN charts via a small Raspberry Pi Computer. I have now 3 GPS options and two feeding the chart with priority given to the GPS puck port

The electronics training is also valuable when installing and maintaining my solar system. It's something else I enjoy "playing" with as I have 4 panels and 4 controllers that I use as needed. One Victron MPPT

I have also bought an entry level sextant.

These things I will use when "stuck" at anchor to stay busy

Lastly, if boating experience isn't relevent to a future cruiser, I'm not sure what is

This experience allowed me to turn an old $2,000 sailboat that had been on the hard fopr 5 years unattened into a crusing boat over 8 years as I sailed it for just another $10,000

I will soon add SSB receiver .........
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Old 02-03-2020, 12:39   #113
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Re: Low Cost Cruising Details

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Originally Posted by carstenb View Post
Unfortunately, anchoring out is not really an option here in Hawaii - the powers that be (read: DLNR) do everything they can to discourage anchoring.

We'd MUCH rather be on teh hook that in a Marina
Where are you heading when you leave Hawaii??
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Old 02-03-2020, 17:50   #114
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Re: Low Cost Cruising Details

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Originally Posted by contrail View Post
I remember when I first sailed a Hobie and asked myself if I could ever be content on another boat? But, of course, I couldn't cruise it other than for the most basic short trips.......
Basic Short trips?

Looks like you lack the experience to comment on beach cat racing.

This from the Worrell 1000 mile beach cat race back in the early 2000's in the Atlantic Ocean from Ft Lauderdale, FL to Va Beach, VA

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Old 02-03-2020, 18:05   #115
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Re: Low Cost Cruising Details

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Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post
I like to give potential cruisers other information besides how great life is "on the hook" or at a marina especially if you are just motoring along the coast and jumping over to the Bahamas every now and then

Sometimes this is seen as being totally against cruising which I am not.

Because of this, I am attacked periodically and I respond......

As far as my posts being irrelevant, that's your opinion

Some of the "experienced cruisers" on here post things like banging halyards and wakes along the ICW. This is beginner stuff

........
Except you and everyone reading knows that this is not what cruising us about. So why do you continually try and paint cruisers this way?

Another suggestion, why not create a sticky under the beach cat sailing forum and just refer people to your resume instead of putting it in every post?
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Old 02-03-2020, 19:08   #116
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Re: Low Cost Cruising Details

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Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post
Basic Short trips?

Looks like you lack the experience to comment on beach cat racing.

This from the Worrell 1000 mile beach cat race back in the early 2000's in the Atlantic Ocean from Ft Lauderdale, FL to Va Beach, VA

racing is not cruising.
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Old 02-03-2020, 19:48   #117
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Re: Low Cost Cruising Details

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racing is not cruising.

Agreed. Just like running a marathon is not hiking, even if the routes are the same. Different activity. Different foundational principles.

Cruising means a lot of different thing to different people. But surely as a basis it must involve travelling in a boat that is self-sufficient for at least a few days, and more likely weeks or months.
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Old 02-03-2020, 20:34   #118
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Re: Low Cost Cruising Details

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The Gulf Coast has beaches and water just as beautiful as the Bahamas.


Ya lost me there.
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Old 03-03-2020, 04:41   #119
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Re: Low Cost Cruising Details

Many of the expenses in long term cruising are decided by the std of living you decide to have.

Read multiple cruising accounts from 50-60 years ago , if that simple life style is of interest low cost cruising will work for you.

The "must haves" like refrigeration , hot running water ect. are what add complexity and cost to the boat.

Other folks labor is quite expensive , so a used sewing machine or a hand palm is a good investment.

KISS , keep it simple, is totally valid for low buck cruising.


Kerosene lamps work , but few modern boats can self steer on most headings , so a self steering would be a must.


Multiple anchors are your insurance ,be prepared!
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Old 03-03-2020, 05:01   #120
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Re: Low Cost Cruising Details

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racing is not cruising.
No it's not but it is time on the water in conditions most wouldn't sail in IF they had a choice.

When you do that for 15 years or so both buoy and distance offshore a bit you gain valuable experience especially since you are sailing a craft with a sail area/displacement ratio of around 76

You also learn sailing over night when racing beach cats since the wind does not always cooperate and you sometimes cannot complete the yearly 100 mile race before dark

Therefore you learn a lot

I'm not sure why some here believe that experience on the water (in the bay and Atlantic Ocean) and on boats both power and sail is a bad thing for a cruiser to have.

When you own your own boats starting at age 16, you learn engines, anchoring, fishing, tides (if you don't already know) break downs offshore, boat/fiberglass repair, trailer repair, what to look for when buying a boat, and the three R's.

All I knew about navigation first time out alone was the three R's......some kid told me

With beach cat racing, there's sailing under bridges against the wind, sailing without an engine always, rig adjustments to include prebend, batten selection for strong and light wind conditions, mast rake and so on

On power boats, you also learn entering unknown inlets. Back then we that couldn't afford a boat and electronics didn't have charts, radios, depth finder or even a compass and sometimes no lights

Finding and entering an unknown inlet can be one of the most exciting things there is. I can remember being along the coast of North Carolina just in sight of land and hunting for an inlet and to finally see a boat coming out ........and as far as the inlets there the finding then there's the getting in without getting swamped

Fun stuff......especially when low on fuel

Nacra 6.0. One of the 4 beach cats I learned on.

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/nacra-60

Attached boat (16' Whirlwind molded plywood construction) similar to the one I owned in 1980 but with no to covering. (Boat motor and trailer $450) Nice for the 15 mile run out to Tangier Island to fish

First boat was in 1971 or so a plywood Chincoteague Scow. The bottom would flex on every wave. You had to have trust! (boat, motor, and trailer $300)
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