How stupid is this idea: turn a racer into a liveaboard?

[Hasbeen]

After a couple of years harbor sailing in a heavy displacement "cruising" yacht, I bought a Morgan Giles 40 footer, similar to the European meter boats, designed for racing on the English Solent. She was low wooded & did not have much beam.


I spent a couple of years racing her in mostly harbor races, & cruising up to 150 miles from my home port, with my wife as crew. I learnt what I needed to changing what I needed to make her easier to handle single handed. & setting up the accommodation, tankage & storage for longer cruising.


After one 4 month 3000 mile cruise to the Great Barrier Reef & back I made a few minor changes, built a really good wind vane self steering system, & headed off again.


I did a further 50,000 miles over 6 years cruising the Pacific Islands. This was often to windward to get to where I wanted to go, & the racer made this both possible & reasonable easy. In the doldrums I could sail where many had to motor, & would often go a month or two starting only my Honda generator.


I am so glad I chose a really good easy sailing boat. Having said that, do avoid the very wide stern boats, designed to support a large crew. These are often very cranky boats, needing a lot of handling in moderate to large following seas. With a moderate hull design I would often do a thousand mile passage, self steering, with out once touching the helm once out of an anchorage. This & good performance made cruising a real pleasure.

[Dooglas]

Originally Posted by dbeausoleil

What the mind can conceive and believe can be achieved. The boat is envisioned to hook to Elon Musk's satellite network...BTW...I'm 100%, mentally retarded, disabled veteran on a small pension. Most of this is just time/labor (w/a few expensive parts from time-to-time). and asking folks what they cruise with.... Still, sponsors would be great!

I think I recognize sarcasm.

[pbmaise]

Originally Posted by NPCampbell

This.

Cruising boats have the reserve buoyancy to handle the added weight of the gear required to be a liveaboard. Adding fuel/water/sewage tanks, fridges, and other niceties may add considerable weight. Adding weight to a hull that is not designed for it may yield a boat that is not good for racing or for living aboard.

All of these problems largely go away if you begin with a racing trimaran. These vessels are designed with enough ama buoyancy to support the wa'a and other ama. I.E. they are capable of flying on one hull.

If after the conversion the vessel only flies a single hull, then it will still have plenty of buoyancy to incorporate all the nice things for cruising. Albeit within reason.

Step 1 in my book would be to remove the mast and then cut it down to about 75% of original height and reattach the topworks to the shorter mast.
Sails would then need to be recut.

[Hesti]

The racer / cruiser live aboard is one angle, largely determined by how basic you want to live and how inventive you are at making the handling possible for you. Riggs have been cut when converting to cruising, one way to adapt to the new use.

Draft has been mentioned as an additional deterrent.

There is one more: Such a boat new would likely be beyond 200 k (?) 250 k (?) whatever or even more today. This boat is offered at less than 10 % of the value of a new boat. Do not expect anything of value for that price. A survey might find some of the issues. Two winters ago, we were standing on the hard besides a racer that was for sale. A bit smaller. The price was similar. The yard owner warned me - there were serious structural issues. The deck needed reattachment to the hull in the bow area, ... ... ... .

There is a reason this boat is cheap and before it is fully in commission again and can be sailed everywhere, it will likely need a multiple of the asking price in investment. It may come close to 50 or even more % of the value of such a boat new. Not all of that can be done diy and materials / items will also be needed as will be facilities. The 8 suits of sails - if purpose sewn for that boat - have no resale value, they just take up space.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by tnerual

I looked at the photos of the boat again after reading through this thread once more (and watching that last video about Camara). It definitely was useful, as I'm now seeing a ton of work that I hadn't even considered at first. It's definitely out of my league in terms of involvement at this point...

Stupid? maybe not, but not for me right now. Thanks everyone for your thoughts!

tnerual, Probably this is not the project for you, as you state, but I am sorry to read all of the negative, and mostly incorrect comments in response to your original query.

There have been many successful conversions of old race boats. Mostly successful, and the reasons they were done was to get a very fine sailing boat with fantastic equipment for a low price These were my reasons. I can name many other boats which were converted for the same reasons. One which comes to mind is Scavenger a Reichel-Pugh 43 which friends of mine purchased for $19,000 (I believe) and it has been excellent for them, but there are many examples.

I wonder if most of the negativity is based on myth and ignorance. So many comments just pass along things people have heard but have no basis of knowledge.

Here are some of my thoughts:

It is not stupid if your priority is on a great sailing boat and you are willing to tackle a project. But You do not need to make this into a BIG project. Keep it simple, keep much of it as is, and add minimally, only that which you really need.

This Soveral is a remarkable boat which changed yacht design in its time. It is a fantastic boat with the most excellent sailing record and characteristics. It will be powerful when sailed to its full potential, but docile (yet still fast) when sailed with smaller sails. In the photos a lot of deck gear is missing. If it is present it is very valuable, but costly to replace.

Headroom: unlikely but it does have a low dog house. The interior is basic but livable day one while you build an interior. Our boat was similar but I made it comfortable in three months (part time) for very little money.

Reasonable for single handling if on auto pilot of windvane (all winches are close together but not reachable from wheel). Great for two, and fine for one if you are not actively steering.

The cockpit is fine for sailing and shorthanded cruising. It is not great for entertaining, but ours, (very similar) seems to work fine. We've had big crowds over for hamburger cookouts and many small gatherings with our friends.

Don't change a thing about the cockpit until you've sailed it for a year or two.

It has a big and extremely valuable winch package (4 three speed winches!) which makes sail handling SOOO easy and fast, even for 1 or 2 people.

You probably need sails but the working jib (a number 4 jib) and a dacron main may be serviceable and will be all you need to get started. Add a asymmetrical spinnaker and you will be set for this boat.

[QUOTE=Joh.Ghurt;3408976]I guess you consider racers more along the line of a Pogo, a Figaro or an Open 40 that can be easily sailed alone. Perhaps even an old Imoca.

A few things to consider:
[LIST][*] Racers usually don't have nice wooden interior with cabins and salon tables. If you start adding this, the weight might change the performance of your boat. Adding interior, such as bulkheads need not add much weight, and remember, this boat was sailed with 10 crew members. If you remove 8 of them you have a lot of weight to play with.[*]Most racers I know usually have more draft that then average cruiser of a similar size. This can be annoying in many areas where everything over 6 foot limits your choices of anchorages and marinas.Yes, this boat will have 8ft of draft. Very helpful for sailing but a problem in some parts of the world. Our boat, with 8ft of draft, has never been a problem but we avoided the east coast of the USA[*]Most racers I was on weren't big on anchoring gear. They're supposed to race in open oceans.You will have to add this, but you can place the windlass and chain well aft for better weight location[*]How are you going to solve the problem of the tender?No Problem. the tender can be lashed on the very open bow or, if you wish, deflated and rolled up and stored below. (I would not suggest or advise you to put davits on the stern.[*]At least for me, when living in warm areas, sun protection in the cockpit is critical. I haven't seen many racers with biminis. I also love to enjoy a bottle of wine with friends. Check if the cockpit works for your intended use.A full awning is easy to add for use when anchored or at the dock. Smaller awnings work well for sun protection while sailing. A small dodger is essential. The cockpit is not made foe comfortable lounging. You have to sit on cushions or have folding chairs[*]Many marinas include the bow-sprit in the length to charge for.This boat does not have a bow sprit

Originally Posted by Orin

... It’s not a 43’ boat, but 50 lbs made a huge difference on it. Weight will not appreciably affect this boat, remember it raced with a crew of 10... A cruiser would consider most of the sail plans overpowered because they’re lacking this ballast. This boat will not need a full crew as ballast. With small sails it will be perfect without any movable crew weight. When Judy and I raced Wings in double handed racing we knew we would win if the wind came up because our boat (like Locura) would stand up fine without extra crew on the rail...You may have to have 3 or more people to operate a winch in this configurationSorry, this is crazy. The big winches on this boat make any operation easy. For example my 70+ wife can quickly grind in a small jib, raise the main, or swing a fully loaded dingy and motor on board with the big primary winches, by herself! There is nothing easier than using big, 3-speed winches with good leads...You’ll likely spend more trying to make the sail management possible to be done by a single person than the difference in cost... the sail management on this boat, with a roller furling jib will be fine as is.

Originally Posted by Orin

...If it were my boat, it would involve changing most parts of the running rigging, winches, furling systems etc. No, change none of these things, they are perfect as is, except add roller furling jib (or hank on)

After all the time and work that went into it, would I not have been better off buying a racer cruiser for $75k of similar dimensions? It depends on what the op wants. A thorough bred or a compromise

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

...there are six good size Lewmar self-tailers in the cockpit. The two primaries are not self tailing, they are top cleating

Originally Posted by Lepke

a racer into a liveaboard?
Start with building a deck cabin, otherwise it's like living in a cave. But it's great for a hermit. This is a stupid comment. There can be as much light down below as you want with deck lights and prisms. OK, you have to step up the ladder to look out, but it is also private

Originally Posted by Manateeman

I like the photo of her plowing into a wave. M Mark, this boat will not plow into waves, it will rise over them. in 35 years ours has never plowed into a wave or even threatened to broach

Originally Posted by Martkimwat

...usually involves shortening the mast to reduce the sail area,Nope. Leave the mast exactly as is and use a smaller jib, and reef the main when the wind gets over 20. It will be fine, very fine. and usually some changes to the superstructure which are usually minimal...you can pick up a race boat at knock down prices (because it is no longer competitive or the rules have changed making it non compliant)After 35 years our old IOR racer is still fully competitive even with a liveaboard interior and all of our stuff. You don't need to go to the grand prix level, most racing world wide is club racing and you will be fully compliant and competitive

Originally Posted by NPCampbell

This. Cruising boats have the reserve buoyancy to handle the added weight of the gear required to be a liveaboard. Adding fuel/water/sewage tanks, fridges, and other niceties may add considerable weight. Adding weight to a hull that is not designed for it may yield a boat that is not good for racing or for living aboard.Totally wrong. The boat which is normally raced with 2000lbs of crew will be fine with less crew weight and some moderate interior added. We carry around 2500lbs of cruising equipment and our similar boat performs perfectly.

Originally Posted by NPCampbell

I hadn't thought of that. I think it would be interesting to share your weight savings during your refit.

However, I still don't think 2 tons covers the refit to a 40+ racing boat and the required live aboard provisions. Just rattling off a list (including optional stuff) maybe someone can put better weight estimates than I could:

60 gallons of water(500 pounds), 50 gallons of diesel (350 pounds), propane, 125 pounds of food per person per month (total guess here), dinghy, outboard, gas, oars, davits, house batteries, solar/wind/water gens, bimini, enclosures, diesel genset, aircon, water maker, fridge, freezer, water purifiers, cruising sails vs racing sails, extra sails, real anchor, spare anchor, chain, rode, spare parts for everything, fenders, extra lines, TVs, computers, fishing, snorkel, scuba, paddle boards, cooking and eating utensils, microwave, grills, other kitchen gear, linens, clothes, mattresses, cushions throughout, life boats and safety gear (although this is routinely required on offshore racing boats), tools, and the heaviest item by far, 30 cases of beer (600 pounds).We have all of that (except 140 gallons of water and 60 gallons of diesel) but no genset. We also circumnavigated with 12 sails on board, (none on the cabin sole or any bunk) on the cabin sole or any bunk). This weight did not handicap our sailing performance. Very few cruising boats come equipped with that much stuff either and they seem todo quite nicely.

As for weight savings during the refit. We used honeycomb panels for the new bulkheads, cabinetry, and storage lockers. We kept other added wood, such as floors, galley, and bunk supports light. Equipment weighs what it weighs, and it weighs the same in a cruising boat. The refit did not add apreciable weight to our boat.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Hesti

The racer / cruiser live aboard is one angle, largely determined by how basic you want to live and how inventive you are at making the handling possible for you. Riggs have been cut when converting to cruising, one way to adapt to the new use.

Draft has been mentioned as an additional deterrent.

There is one more: Such a boat new would likely be beyond 200 k (?) 250 k (?) whatever or even more today. This boat is offered at less than 10 % of the value of a new boat. Do not expect anything of value for that price. A survey might find some of the issues. Two winters ago, we were standing on the hard besides a racer that was for sale. A bit smaller. The price was similar. The yard owner warned me - there were serious structural issues. The deck needed reattachment to the hull in the bow area, ... ... ... .

There is a reason this boat is cheap and before it is fully in commission again and can be sailed everywhere, it will likely need a multiple of the asking price in investment. It may come close to 50 or even more % of the value of such a boat new. Not all of that can be done diy and materials / items will also be needed as will be facilities. The 8 suits of sails - if purpose sewn for that boat - have no resale value, they just take up space.

Cost (with refit): Yes, converting this boat may cost multiples of the purchase price. Say a multiple of 3. You still have a fantastic boat for under $80,000. (I'd actually say you may be into this boat over $100,000 when all is said and done. But you will have mostly new stuff and it is still less than a new boat which wouldn't sail like this one will).

Practicality of the refit: No special facilites or expertise will be needed. No exotic materials. Little or zero fiberglass work. Minimal interior remodeling, all DYI. Otherwise it is all buying stuff and bolting it on. The boat is wide open so the possibilities are endless. I took a similar boat and did it myself in only a few months in the water with not much money, and I am no craftsman or boatbuilder, but it has suited us for 35 years.

How about As-Is? This boat, once the deck work shown in the photos is complete, if it isn't already, the boat could be sailed as-is. You need a dodger, anchor, and windvane and you could go around the world. So, that means you can do as much or as little as you wish. No Big project is required.

Sails: Most of the racing sails will have very little life left in them unless a recent owner has bought new ones. However there will be smaller sails, which were used rarely, which will still be serviceable, and perhaps a delivery mainsail which will be fine for cruising. Then you use the remaining sails when appropriate until they fail completely. It took us 10 years to go through all of the old racing sails we got with Wings

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

Orin I did'nt think about costs, this is exactly why the wife says NO to most of my ideas.
I don't think you would have to worry about changing winches, there are six good size Lewmar self-tailers in the cockpit. The other advantage with this yacht for the OP is that he mentions he is 6' 6" so he could easily build himself a good size play pen with a custom mattress and a cabin with the correct height for him.
Cheers

I believe the winches are all Barient, not Lewmar. Fine winches and many parts are available from HUTTON-ARCO Yacht Winches in Australia. Otherwise, I have had parts machined for my Barient 3-speed winches. Compare the cost for a new 3-speed winch from Harken or Lewmar (Whew! Thousands of dollars) The winches alone are worth the price of this boat.

[wingssail]

I am going to reiterate, This is a fantastic boat, a game changer in 1982-83 when it was built. Looking again at the photos I think the deck has probably been finished, and it looks great.

I've raced extensively against two Soverel 43 sister ships in recent years and they are fast, easily handled and robust. The cockpit is superb for two people and doable for one if on auto or windvane.

The interior of this one is original and has all the potential for a simple and inexpensive remodel. (hint: there is nothing you have to remove, it's already basically empty).

It will suit a particular type of person, and once you buy it and remodel it, you'll be stuck with it; selling it for anything like you have in it will be impossible. Ma and Pa cruiser will come down the dock to see it and they'll stop about three slips away. Pa will say, "Ma, this ain't the boat for us", and they will turn away.

But this boat can be made comfortable and cruiseable and then it will be a world class boat that few boats anywhere can match for sailing pleasure, cruising capability, and versatility. And you will own a classic.

It is a project, yes, but the naysayers who claim it cannot be a good cruising boat simply don't know what they are talking about.

[chasfgr]

I've met several liveaboards on ex-racing boats.
All of them are happy to live in campsite consditions, and very few are interested in using the boats' performance capability.
So I wouldn't start from here, but if you're lumbered with an out-and-out offshore racer, it's a possibility.
If it's a pure £round-the-cans" boat, think again - whatever you do will be unsatisfactory, from liveing to performing.

[Fore and Aft]

Looks like a buried bow to me Wingssail? I am not even sure that Dugong bow would stop that happening?
I wonder if there are drawings of the keel around? It's really not a big deal to take a chainsaw to the keel just below the deepest keel bolt or say two feet of the bottom of the keel and then cast the offcut into two half torpedo's. Then you simply attach and fair the two torpedo's to the keel sides. The biggest issue is having the chainsaw spotless so when you return it to the tool hire centre they have no idea how hard you flogged it!
Cheers

[dbeausoleil]

Originally Posted by Dooglas

I think I recognize sarcasm.

You'd be incorrect... It's all true. I have pictures...

[conchaway]

I'd say do whatever floats your boat or cranks your anchor.

[NormanMartin]

Hello: I am familiar with Locura having sought to buy her in 2004 when she was in Maine, USA at about the same price. The surveyor advised that her condition was not suitable for our project so we moved along. If someone has fixed her up properly then consider her.

Years earlier, when she was Barrister, I saw her on Long Island Sound. Fast boat! Needs some beefy boys on the rail to keep her in the water. As a cruiser you won't need a headsail over 100% or so.

As info, my project was to buy a race boat and go to the Caribbean and do the circuit there which we did. I had a 45 striped out machine and my teen age son as crew. It was actually an OK boat, surprisingly comfortable. A good friend, my age, bought a derelict IOR two tonner and converted her to a cruiser with pilot house and such. Last I heard he's on his 3rd circle.

Have fun

[wingssail]

This is not going to plow into the wave, it is digging a hole in the water, as IOR boats do, and it will continue to sail this way for hours, days if needed.

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

Looks like a buried bow to me Wingssail? I am not even sure that Dugong bow would stop that happening?
Nothing will stop that from happening short of reducing sail area. This is an IOR Boat, digging a hole in the water is what they do (famous for it). Compared to more modern boats it is slow. Compared to other IOR boats Locura was fast downwind. Fact of life.

I avoid it, but no harm done sailing this way.


I wonder if there are drawings of the keel around? It's really not a big deal to take a chainsaw to the keel just below the deepest keel bolt or say two feet of the bottom of the keel and then cast the offcut into two half torpedo's. Then you simply attach and fair the two torpedo's to the keel sides. The biggest issue is having the chainsaw spotless so when you return it to the tool hire centre they have no idea how hard you flogged it!

This is a good idea and I've thought of it several times, however once you butcher this boat it is no longer the classic Locura, but simply a cheap old race boat which has been butchered. The best reason to buy this boat is to enjoy what it is, not change it.
Cheers

[Dooglas]

Originally Posted by dbeausoleil

You'd be incorrect... It's all true. I have pictures...

If you have actually done what you described, it is not pictures I would be interested in. It is a real world budget for what all those conversions and additions cost.