Harbor Patrol inspection question?

[Twidget]

Harbor Patrol = Space Force???? :-)

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Twidget

Harbor Patrol = Space Force???? :-)

That would be Military and not Police.
However it has existed for decades, whether it is made another branch or not.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by er9

I officially got my live aboard acception in my marina and need to get Harbor Patrol permit so i have an inspection coming up. what sorts of things will they be looking for?

My guess is fire extinguishers, holding tank requirement with working diverter valve, flares, horn, bell or whistle, pfd's, throw able pfd, engine compartment fan, discharge placard. what am i missing? does that pretty much cover everything?

This has gone far and wide. Ask the marina. It sounded like you had it covered.
Who ever the Harbor Patrol is? If something needs attention, I'll bet they will give you time to comply.

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by bgallinger

Harbor Patrol??? Good Grief. What next.

Pew pew pew

[Symphony]

Harbor Patrol in Long Beach/ Los Angeles Harbors and marinas was around decades before 9/11. just another name for Harbor Master. I still see actual Harbor Master in New England, one person with maybe some helpers and a single boat. LB/LA harbor needs more than one. even Catalina switch from a harbor master to harbor patrol decades ago.

Harbor Master can collect mooring and slip fees, and many places has the power to issue infractions for violating no-wake or anchoring in prohibited areas. They can supervise moorings, fuel docks, water taxi, etc... all the functions of a harbor including watching out for unseaworthy anchoring, mooring, or "live boarding"

in 30+ years of sailing I've only ever run into one jerk harbor master. I wish every municipal and service business worked so well.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Symphony

Harbor Patrol in Long Beach/ Los Angeles Harbors and marinas was around decades before 9/11. just another name for Harbor Master. I still see actual Harbor Master in New England, one person with maybe some helpers and a single boat. LB/LA harbor needs more than one. even Catalina switch from a harbor master to harbor patrol decades ago.

Harbor Master can collect mooring and slip fees, and many places has the power to issue infractions for violating no-wake or anchoring in prohibited areas. They can supervise moorings, fuel docks, water taxi, etc... all the functions of a harbor including watching out for unseaworthy anchoring, mooring, or "live boarding"

in 30+ years of sailing I've only ever run into one jerk harbor master. I wish every municipal and service business worked so well.

Link says they were established after 911, in response to 911
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long..._Harbor_Patrol

[er9]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I’d call them and ask.
Most inspectors are pleased that your proactively preparing for their inspection.
Do you have to have this inspection if your at anchor? How long at anchor before your not a transient?

good question im not 100% sure.

[er9]

Originally Posted by NYSail

Take a shower and bake cookies.....
really like was said I would get an auxiliary cg inspection first. Make sure
You have no oil and dirty water in bilge..... they don’t want that feeding the harbor. They don’t want derelict boats all over the place.

Good luck!
Greg

done and done

[ArmyDaveNY]

Originally Posted by Suijin

Coming down LI Sound last week I saw a sub (Virginia class nuclear attack) off in the distance and they were regularly broadcasting warnings to maintain a 500 yard distance.

An hour or two later I was passing through the Race. Turn around and the sub is speeding up on my stern. Not a lot of width through there. No way I’m going to be able to give him 500 yards. VHF crackles “Polaris this is US Navy submarine.” Was told to maintain course and speed and they would cut my stern to head into New London. Never been hailed by a sub before and given the right of way lol

I had a similar situation a few years ago while bringing a Sabre 34 down the coast. We were heading past the entrance to the Chesapeake when we heard an announcement that warship 65 was exiting the bay and all vessels needed to stay 5 NM away. There was no way we could meet that as we were in the half way between Cape Henry and Cape Charles. If we turned to starboard we'd run into them. If we turned around and headed back north we'd slow down and they'd run into us. If we turned to port they'd overtake us in no time. The escorting Coast Guard cutter was upon us in no time checking us out. We kept heading south as it was the quickest way for us to get out of their way and the CG waved and made sure we continued on our way without deviating from our southward journey. Warship 65 was an aircraft carrier and past aft of us by about two miles.

[ArmyDaveNY]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

"All the DoD services are prohibited from directly participating in law enforcement acts. "
Uh, no. Not quite, not anymore.
You're no doubt refering to what is generally called the Posse Commitatus Act, 18 U.S.C. § 1385.
Two holes in that. First, the USSC had in fact ruled that the Act only applies to those branches of the military that were specified in the Act. And that's one reason why the USCG was always allowed to operate domestically, the Act probably would have mentioned them if they had existed back then--but it doesn't.
Second hole coming with the Dick Act of 1903 and the founding of the modern National Guard program. Conveniently, there is "The National Guard" but then there is also "The National Guard of the United States". The former are various State Militias which have been seconded (activated and loaned) to the latter and placed under the control of the Army. But, they are not regular Army, technically they are still State Militia on loan to the Federal Militia so, again, not prevented by the Act.
Note to non-Americans: Yes, this is archaic and obtuse law to us, and none of our politicians wants to open that can of worms. In fact, if you look up the enabling laws for our National Guard, you'll find seven acts (including/since the Dick Act of 1903) finally are mentioned--but you can't find their full texts on line. Conveniently.

And now for the real kicker. After Katrina, our President said "bring in the military" and his advisers had to explain to him, that's illegal. Which made no one happy. So very very quietly, perhaps even deviously, they snuck an appendix into the Omnibus Defense Appropriations Act of 2006 (?). That's a law about 1000 pages thick that Congress always has to sign, and usually does so without really reading.
The new section makes no mention of the Posse Comitatus Act, so if you search for that you get no results. However, it cleverly mentions 18 U.S.C. § 1385 and that in time of a presidentially declared emergency, that section of USC may be set aside and the President (exclusively) may order US military troops into domestic law enforcement duty.
Some of us would argue that this is very dangerous precedent, contravening long established law and doing so without public debate. In fact, arguably intentionally CONCEALING the change, and giving the president powers that are not his.

But that's the way it is. I may be confusing 2006 with 2007...but 18 U.S.C. § 1385 no longer is what it was. There's an obscure section of new (now 12 year old) law that we can only hope is used with great discretion. Of course, our presidents are always known to have great discretion. (Cough, cough.)

Funny thing, the way things get changed with zero press coverage and zero Congressional knowledge, even when they are the ones signing the changes. Kinda scary.

You are correct in many ways however there are some subtleties that people should be aware of. In particular your comments on the National Guard are important. (I apologize for the thread drift.)



The National Guard normally operates under title 32 which means they are under state control. When on federal duty they operate under title 10, Most people won't know the difference between active duty military and national guard military. Additionally there is a state guard, which wears an identical uniform with the difference being a tag above the left pocket that says state guard instead of Army.



The original Posse Comitatus act applied only to the Army, and later around 1965 it was amended to include the Air Force. The Navy and the Marines abide by the act due to DOD regulations that require them to adhere to the spirit of the act. The Coast Guard is not a part of the Department of Defense except during times of war or unless specifically transferred to the DOD as part of the Navy. Otherwise they are now part of the DHS (Department of Homeland Security) and prior to the DHS they were part of the Treasury.



Posse Comitatus does NOT prevent the Army from being deployed domestically in all cases. It does however prevent the Army and Air Force from being deployed domestically for purposes of enforcing policy. This means that they can be deployed for humanitarian purposes as they are not enforcing policy but are instead providing assistance. They can also be deployed domestically to fight foreign enemies on U.S. soil.


There are some exceptions however, and these came about in the late 19th century as well as after 911. They generally allow the President to authorize the military to restore order after natural disaster, insurrection, failure of the state to enforce laws, etc. and have specific provisions. An example of this was when the Marines and the Army were used to restore order during the 1992 LA riots or when federal troops were sent to Arkansas to ensure desegregation 1957. These exceptions are a part of Posse Comitatus but also part of the Enforcement Acts and Insurrection Acts.


Interestingly, it reminds me of the oath I took as an enlisted man and later an officer (Oops, further thread drift). The enlisted oath was for me to obey the orders of the President of the U.S. and the officers and NCOs above me. As an officer I took an oath to obey and defend the Constitution. This difference, as well as Posse Comitatus, occasionally came up as discussion points.

[Blaine]

I've had this inspection in Marina del Rey, CA a couple of times. It's performed by the Harbor Patrol which is run by the L.A. County Sheriff's Dept. The inspection has been done by the same guy for decades -- I think it's his only gig.

He is looking for all state and federally required safety equipment for your size vessel. The Coast Guard Aux inspection ahead of time is an excellent suggestion, not because the harbor patrol inspector cares, but it will give you a heads-up to any deficiencies ahead of time. As said above, he'll also check your paperwork and sanitation system to make sure you can keep sewage out of the harbor. The only thing that hasn't been mentioned is that you'll also be asked to start your engine and put it in gear -- the reason given is they want to be able to evacuate the docks quickly in the event of fire or other emergency.

If he finds something amiss, he'll just make an appointment to come back once you've had a chance to correct it.

[er9]

Originally Posted by Blaine

I've had this inspection in Marina del Rey, CA a couple of times. It's performed by the Harbor Patrol which is run by the L.A. County Sheriff's Dept. The inspection has been done by the same guy for decades -- I think it's his only gig.

He is looking for all state and federally required safety equipment for your size vessel. The Coast Guard Aux inspection ahead of time is an excellent suggestion, not because the harbor patrol inspector cares, but it will give you a heads-up to any deficiencies ahead of time. As said above, he'll also check your paperwork and sanitation system to make sure you can keep sewage out of the harbor. The only thing that hasn't been mentioned is that you'll also be asked to start your engine and put it in gear -- the reason given is they want to be able to evacuate the docks quickly in the event of fire or other emergency.

If he finds something amiss, he'll just make an appointment to come back once you've had a chance to correct it.

Hey thanks for that...I'm in MDR also. He's coming by monday. Think I'm good to go.

[John L. Cwierz]

My dear friends,
You know, the USA is kind of becoming like a dictator country, everywhere they are inspecting you. What the hell, with so many inspections. Every inspection that they make it goes against my freedom as a normal citizen. If I am allowed to have a boat, and if I am permitted to use it, please do not restrict my freedom by all of these inspections. If these continue, there will be propeller inspection, shaft inspection, engine inspection, hull inspection, radio emission inspection, everything will be an option to be inspected, and, loo, for all of these you will have to pay. Gee, where is our freedom, freedom of movement, freedom of sailing, freedom of,whatever. I guess that even if you have a plain sailing boat they request you have a fire extinguisher, even if you don't have a stove, of any cooking apparatus. Yes, you need a fire extinguisher, because you have a Zippo cigarette lighter, Oh, come on, bull shl... Oh, yes, you have to have an inspection if you had missed last inspection.
You know, before, for getting a registration number from the USCG, it was free, now you have to pay 26.50. Aww, come on, sailors, get together and get rid of all this unnecessary things. Freedom is FREEDOM.
Of course, Harbor Patrol has to earn their money, new source of work created, but, on a fake basis. Impinging our freedom.
Now, pay your insurance, and if they catch you doing something awful, let the insurance pay for the damage. But get coverage.

[er9]

Originally Posted by John L. Cwierz

My dear friends,
You know, the USA is kind of becoming like a dictator country, everywhere they are inspecting you. What the hell, with so many inspections. Every inspection that they make it goes against my freedom as a normal citizen. If I am allowed to have a boat, and if I am permitted to use it, please do not restrict my freedom by all of these inspections. If these continue, there will be propeller inspection, shaft inspection, engine inspection, hull inspection, radio emission inspection, everything will be an option to be inspected, and, loo, for all of these you will have to pay. Gee, where is our freedom, freedom of movement, freedom of sailing, freedom of,whatever. I guess that even if you have a plain sailing boat they request you have a fire extinguisher, even if you don't have a stove, of any cooking apparatus. Yes, you need a fire extinguisher, because you have a Zippo cigarette lighter, Oh, come on, bull shl... Oh, yes, you have to have an inspection if you had missed last inspection.
You know, before, for getting a registration number from the USCG, it was free, now you have to pay 26.50. Aww, come on, sailors, get together and get rid of all this unnecessary things. Freedom is FREEDOM.
Of course, Harbor Patrol has to earn their money, new source of work created, but, on a fake basis. Impinging our freedom.
Now, pay your insurance, and if they catch you doing something awful, let the insurance pay for the damage. But get coverage.

i agree with the spirit of your thinking but i think there has to be some sort of balance. Unfortunately most people just dont care about much of anything and would pollute, destroy, deface, put in danger others for their own sake. some sort of system of regulation keeps it all in check and makes sure we all play by some sort of basic rule system. Obviously it can get out of hand and we do have a lot of unnecessary regulation but thats because we currently live in a nanny state...it ebbs and flows with time and new administrations.

[Dooglas]

Originally Posted by John L. Cwierz

My dear friends,
You know, the USA is kind of becoming like a dictator country, everywhere they are inspecting you. What the hell, with so many inspections. Every inspection that they make it goes against my freedom as a normal citizen. If I am allowed to have a boat, and if I am permitted to use it, please do not restrict my freedom by all of these inspections. If these continue, there will be propeller inspection, shaft inspection, engine inspection, hull inspection, radio emission inspection, everything will be an option to be inspected, and, loo, for all of these you will have to pay. Gee, where is our freedom, freedom of movement, freedom of sailing, freedom of, whatever.

Getting pretty political. Freedom isn't so simple as freedom from fire extinguisher requirements. I'm guessing Somalia doesn't have any boat safety inspections. They do have pirates, however, so you may lose your boat or your life. I notice you are based in Spain. Don't they have boat inspections? Car inspections? Customs inspections? What have you?