Global catastrophe / SHTF "survivable locations"

[Buzzman]

nh - don't disagree with any of your last post.

The point is not whether or not we reach 'peak population' but whether or not the planet's ecosystem can *sustain* that peak population - especially if that peak population all chooses to adopt a lifestyle consistent with the excessive consumption common in developed countries.

Otherwise know as "rising affluence in the developing world".

The difficulty for us humans is ensuring we don't reach peak pop and/or we don't reach peak sustainable population.

But as Dave points out, we're getting a bit off topic, as the SHTF scenario is that of some other catastrophe that occurs before we reach "peak unsustainable population".

However, I suspect if - slash - when that point IS reached, that those with guns will start 'evening out' the discrepancy.

When push comes to shove and ya gotta eat, well, ya gotta eat...

[newhaul]

[QUOTE=ArmyDaveNY;3004121]

Originally Posted by newhaul

sounds to me like the population bomb all over again .
That is until technology steps in and resets the clock again .
Or the sun does the reset ( again)
Very true.

What some have forgotten is that population and global warming are not really relevant to the SHTF discussion. The SHTF situation is something that causes a drastic and sudden collapse in an area or in areas that require sudden relocation.

climate change not withstanding
I was referring to a cme direct hit knocking power out for months to years .
We had a cme glancing blow in 1989 and Quebec lost power for many hours
https://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/fe..._darkness.html
A direct hit could knock out power for weeks or more with little warning .

[Buzzman]

Yeah - agree longer term power outage is more likely to kncok out the 'just in time' food and fuel delivery process.

But it's unlikelt to be global, so potentially less inconvenient than a global pandemic.

In that scenario, having a bug-out boat would be useful, if you could stay offshore or in remote locations for several months, independent of land (mostly) and wait till the bodies had either been collected or otherwise disposed of, or the 'cure' discovered.

'Course, zombie apocalypse you got no chance unless you can get to a remote island and keep it that way.

Back to guns again, I'm afraid...

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by Buzzman

For example, lots of noise is being made about bio-meat - local Hungry Jacks chain here has recently introduced burgers featuring 'no-meat' patties.

So far the bio-meat is pretty bad for you. Between fats and salt it might help weed out competition when the SHTF.

Originally Posted by Buzzman

AND... on that note, it's worth noting that population growth (which they also noted on the website) varies from place to place and culture to culture.

I think it is more interesting to look at economic strata within a society. The least productive people are reproducing the most. This could end up being causal (A factor, not THE factor) in SHTF.

In the kingdom of the blind a one-eyed man is king. What do you have to bring to the party and can you prove it fast enough to avoid being disposed of? Can you weld? Can you build a welder? Can you grow stuff? Can you mine coal? Can you figure out where to dig? The movie Idiocracy comes to mind - it's just a movie but it does give one pause.

[GordMay]

A slightly different take on: "How to Survive Doomsday"
The high technology that could help us live through the sun’s inevitable transformation.
☞ https://getpocket.com/explore/item/h...rvive-doomsday

[oldtom]

Originally Posted by Ruso

Unless she equipped with weapons and ammo plus a few a good friends.
Otherwise I stick with my weapons and friends in my hometown.

Sail away - idealistic approach.. Population on remote places likes us because we bring money and some law exists to protect us locally. When it ends - you are on the mercy of locals... Some of them prefer to take from you instead of trade.

you all miss one point 'is if all go;s arse up no one is going too wont or let you just turn up and impose them self on there community,So its time that you start to look after the only home we can live on stop wasting Globe re souse its strange thats it only in the usa that seems to think like grab a gun and the all going to end

[ArmyDaveNY]

Originally Posted by oldtom

you all miss one point 'is if all go;s arse up no one is going too wont or let you just turn up and impose them self on there community,So its time that you start to look after the only home we can live on stop wasting Globe re souse its strange thats it only in the usa that seems to think like grab a gun and the all going to end

Exactly. When it hits the fan the only home you will have is the one you have prepared. As far and worrying about the Earth, that means nothing if there is some sort of disaster that requires you to abandon the area you are in.

[peter57]

Originally Posted by Wallaby

Therein lies the problem of modern society.
Any person or group that does not conform to our personal belief is suspect at best, and more likely denied and decried. Critical thinking goes out the window thanks to confirmation bias.

My advice, become less close-minded, quickly, if you wish to survive. Some SHTF scenarios are not so far-fetched that their probability of occurrence is insignificant.

The 2007-9 recession was entirely predictable. Some of us made a great deal of money. Some of us were barely impacted. Some of us lost everything. I know which group I want to be in. Do you?

That statement does not relieve The Guardian as doomsday wacko's and very confirmation bias.

Did you work out my personal beliefs? Dah!

Natural and man made problems occur constantly and when I stuck up for preppers saying that unexpected things can happen, my academic children jumped on me, then I mentioned the history of global damage to civilisation from volcanoes in the last 1000 years and probably most are only a few thousand miles from us and mention a few other scenarios of the like that has been mentioned here, but the guardians every word is doomsday as I am subscribed to it for a good laugh.

I commercialised my now granted patent in 2007 after I lodged the provisional in March 2006 and with the recession it was not easy. But a challenge is a challenge, especially patent scrutineers.

[Group9]

Originally Posted by redneckrob

On the flip side, NYC did just fine in 9/11 and Sandy. As I've posted before with the opposite, generalizing human behavior from one disaster is a bit of a fraught exercise.

Sandy was pretty weak. My daughter went through Katrina, and then moved to New Jersey, and went through Sandy. We were without power for six months in Katrina, and didn't get out of a Fema trailer for eleven months.

In Sandy, my daughter lost power for two days, and cable TV for four, and had people up there asking her if going through Sandy was just like going through Katrina!

You tell me what New York city would be like for six months without power.

[undercutter]

Originally Posted by oldtom

you all miss one point 'is if all go;s arse up no one is going too wont or let you just turn up and impose them self on there community,So its time that you start to look after the only home we can live on stop wasting Globe re souse its strange thats it only in the usa that seems to think like grab a gun and the all going to end

To me the only survivable places would be parts of Asia, ie. Indonesia, PNG, etc. or maybe parts of South America.


The problem is that the world has forgotten traditional ways so without technology and electricity most won't survive.

[ArmyDaveNY]

Originally Posted by Group9

Sandy was pretty weak. My daughter went through Katrina, and then moved to New Jersey, and went through Sandy. We were without power for six months in Katrina, and didn't get out of a Fema trailer for eleven months.

In Sandy, my daughter lost power for two days, and cable TV for four, and had people up there asking her if going through Sandy was just like going through Katrina!

You tell me what New York city would be like for six months without power.

I was here for hurricane Sandy. We were very luck as it was only a category one hurricane and the damage, when contrasted to Katrina and what the Bahamas just went through, was relatively minor.

As I've said in an earlier post, we are at best, nine meals from anarchy. People also forget about the blackouts we have had over the past century. Two were mild and people were well behaved. One resulted in chaos and very pack like poor behavior. Given today's environment, it would quickly descend into anarchy.

[ArmyDaveNY]

I just happened to see the below article in the NY Post. It talks about a part of Puerto Rico, and island called Calebra, that just recently reconnected to the main power grid, two years after hurricanes Irma and Maria!

What is noteworthy about this is that those on this little island have had to learn to be self sufficient. This includes working the land not just for food, but for herbs for medicine. According to the article, electricity and water were both piped in under the water from the main island of Puerto Rico. Perhaps unsurprisingly, the generators from FEMA were more reliable than the main electricity grid.

https://nypost.com/2019/10/27/why-di...puerto-ricans/

[roland stockham]

Originally Posted by unbusted67

Following this thread. Seems like PNG would be a good option. Off the grid, lots of farmland, people who know how to feed themselves without help from outsiders.

This is all very true but have you considered why we would want you to join us? I am sure there will be many refugees fleeing the chaos and if they have valuable skills or resources to add to the community they could be welcome if there is room. If they are simply dead weight expecting a free lunch why should we take them. Can you fish, hunt, farm, build a cabin, have medical skills or something else valuable? If not perhaps you should thing about changing yourself not wondering about where to go. If enough people make changes, downsize, live more sustainable lives etc the problem would never arise so an even better solution is to work to implement climate targets, eliminate industrial food production and change the 'more is better' over-consumption attitude of the most industrialized countries to avoid a crisis. It is not yet too late but getting close, this decade being the critical one.

[hpeer]

At some point there might be enough cruisers to make a “community” of our own. It’s one thing to land as a single few and expect to be accepted. But PERHAPS if a group made landfall and worked cooperatively together and with the local community to make for a better arrangement for all.

Don’t know, just thinking out loud. I’m sure lots will jump on me for this. Have at it. I’ve been wrong so many times I get nervous when someone agrees.

[wolfgal]

Originally Posted by hpeer

At some point there might be enough cruisers to make a “community” of our own. It’s one thing to land as a single few and expect to be accepted. But PERHAPS if a group made landfall and worked cooperatively together and with the local community to make for a better arrangement for all.

Don’t know, just thinking out loud. I’m sure lots will jump on me for this. Have at it. I’ve been wrong so many times I get nervous when someone agrees.

Newhaul, i'm impressed!


if things get a bit tough while i'm out there and i feel i'd be safer finding a cluster of boats, i'll fly C and F flags...





wolfie