EU Customs Requirements

[rpelton]

We are US citizens with a boat in France, US flagged. We entered France in July 2023. We had an accident in a marina in France and the boat has been under repair since August 2023 (we have documentation).

Next summer, we only have 4 weeks to cruise and then have to return to the US. That puts us somewhere in Portugal, where we will put the boat in storage until May 2025. We will eventually be in the med.

Our problem is that under our current plan we will outstay our Customs regulation on the boat. My understanding is that if we are in the EU for more than 18 months, we have to pay VAT on the boat.

Any suggestions with how to get some sort of waiver?

Thanks,
Bobby

[Zanshin]

Rather than try to figure out how to circumvent regulations, how about visiting the U.K.? There are wonderful cruising grounds there and they (almost) speak English, too!

[Danm1]

Or swing by the Channel Islands on your way south.

[rpelton]

Hi and thanks for the feedback.

Not trying to circumvent any regulations. In fact, trying to find out how to work within the guidelines. I think there is a way to get an extension on the customs, due to our unfortunate repair needs. I'm just not sure how to apply for this. We are still in France, but will probably need the extension once we hit Portugal. France, though, is were we've been bogged down and have been burning time.

Great ideas about UK and Channel Islands. We did that on our trip down from Scotland (where we purchases the boat. We are heading south toward the Med and not interested in going north at this point.

Thanks again for your ideas.

[goeasy123]

You restart the 18 month clock by leaving EU waters and returning. By simply crossing an external sea boarder (in most cases 12 miles out) you are making a customs declaration. There is no time limit. Therefore if you sail out and back you have made two declarations and restarted the 18 month clock. So for example, if you sail across Biscay from EU France to EU Spain you have reset the clock. Your proof if asked (unlikely) would be your ships log.



That said if you have the opportunity to visit a 3rd country and get some evidence that you were there this will hold you in good stead. There would be no better evidence than a marina invoice for a day visit citing the boats name.


If you can't get to a 3rd country ask an agent to evidencce your 12 mile limit crossing. I've heard of an owner asking the coast guard to observe their crossing of the limit on AIS and making a note in the log.



Also, you might want to do some research into the International Maritime Organizations 1965 Convention that, if you know how to do it, will allow 3rd country citizens from visa exempt countries on 3rd country boats to stay indefinately in EU waters.

[rpelton]

Thanks for the great info. Probably will take advantage of international waters to restart the customs clock (which I know is different that immigration).

[Mal Reynolds]

Originally Posted by goeasy123

You restart the 18 month clock by leaving EU waters and returning. By simply crossing an external sea boarder (in most cases 12 miles out) you are making a customs declaration. There is no time limit. Therefore if you sail out and back you have made two declarations and restarted the 18 month clock. So for example, if you sail across Biscay from EU France to EU Spain you have reset the clock. Your proof if asked (unlikely) would be your ships log.



That said if you have the opportunity to visit a 3rd country and get some evidence that you were there this will hold you in good stead. There would be no better evidence than a marina invoice for a day visit citing the boats name.


If you can't get to a 3rd country ask an agent to evidencce your 12 mile limit crossing. I've heard of an owner asking the coast guard to observe their crossing of the limit on AIS and making a note in the log.



Also, you might want to do some research into the International Maritime Organizations 1965 Convention that, if you know how to do it, will allow 3rd country citizens from visa exempt countries on 3rd country boats to stay indefinately in EU waters.

I've been told to take a photo of the chartplotter with time & GPS position.

[Zanshin]

It would be nice to see relevant EU law on these suggestions rather than anecdotal evidence from the internet. Otherwise you might be able to imagine how well the legal defense of "someone told me it was OK to take a photo of my chartplotter" is going to go down should things not go as expected in Spain or France. But if that does actually count as proof (which I doubt), then having an AIS transmitter is going to be better, as that data will be available from reliable 3rd parties.

Also, doing this would require clearing out prior to departure and clearing back in again upon return in order to make it fully legal.

It isn't that much more distance to head to the channel islands or the U.K.

[donradcliffe]

Far better to spend a day with the boat outside the EU, document it, and return,

[Zanshin]

@donradcliffe - Yes, I agree. The quick-and-dirty methods may work, but is the risk worth it?

[tilaya]

Originally Posted by Mal Reynolds

I've been told to take a photo of the chartplotter with time & GPS position.

We are a Australia flaged SV and started in 2021 sailing her. Since then we crossed in the Med. We reentered the EU by now twice.



From our experience we would be very (emphazised) carefull to opt the version with taking a photo of a chart plotter and then claim in Spain a reentry from France.


we found this site helpfull: https://www.noonsite.com
this references the legal background: https://www.ionianyachtsales.com/use...fo/vat-yachts/



as you still have time in 2024 to travel south with Portugal as destination you might also consider Gibraltar or Tanger (Maroco) as a stop or stop-over.


On both our entries into the EU, we presented the customs documentation of a port outside the EU. (Albania in our case) The stamp from Albania customs in our logbook was not accepted as proof of having left the EU waters.



If the procedure with the photo is attempted, leaving officaly, declared by customs, the EU from a French port would be advisable.



Enjoy saling!
Conrad

[goeasy123]

Originally Posted by Zanshin

It would be nice to see relevant EU law on these suggestions rather than anecdotal evidence from the internet. Otherwise you might be able to imagine how well the legal defense of "someone told me it was OK to take a photo of my chartplotter" is going to go down should things not go as expected in Spain or France. But if that does actually count as proof (which I doubt), then having an AIS transmitter is going to be better, as that data will be available from reliable 3rd parties.
U.K.

This EU document provides guidance for pleasure boat owners...https://taxation-customs.ec.europa.e...ats-faq_en.pdf

The law is here... https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...301277&from=EN

This note details the law relevant to the OP's question...https://taxation-customs.ec.europa.e...0transport.pdf

Any means of proving an out and return journey for the purpose of restarting the 18 month clock has no validity in law. The correct approach is to know the law and be able to reference it to any challenging authority.

Originally Posted by Zanshin

Also, doing this would require clearing out prior to departure and clearing back in again upon return in order to make it fully legal.
U.K.

Not always. You could sail through international waters and still be in the EU. You could do it without leaving a country. E.g. France to Corsica, Spain to the Canaries, Portugal to Madeira or Greece to Crete. When you enter Greece from anywhere you restart the clock, as it's not possible the sail to Greece without going through international waters.

Originally Posted by Mal Reynolds

I've been told to take a photo of the chartplotter with time & GPS position.

This has been proven to be unreliable with the authorities in Portugal and Spain, getting owners into trouble in recent years. Oddly, if instead you cite your ships log as proof, because it is recognised as a legal document it must be accepted as proof. It is then up to customs to prove the boat didn't exit and return.

[Zanshin]

Originally Posted by goeasy123

...
Not always. You could sail through international waters and still be in the EU. You could do it without leaving a country. E.g. France to Corsica, Spain to the Canaries, Portugal to Madeira or Greece to Crete. When you enter Greece from anywhere you restart the clock, as it's not possible the sail to Greece without going through international waters.
...

That was my point, if you don't clear out ahead of time, a trip like that can be considered to have been within EU waters.

[goeasy123]

Originally Posted by Zanshin

That was my point, if you don't clear out ahead of time, a trip like that can be considered to have been within EU waters.

You can't clear out on an EU to EU trip. This is a good example of why one should seek the source documents rather than trust forums.

Under immigration law if a person sails between EU countries they can only check in and out if they're coming from or going to a 3rd country.

Under revenue and customs law the boat leaves the EU if it sails 12 miles into international waters. For tax purposes on pleasure craft the only recognised means of declaring import or export is to cross the international sea limit. (Not strictly true. There is an optioinal-for-you documented process you can use, but that's really for commercial vessels, takes time and effort and usually an agent. And in Italy and Greece you can use their Costitutio (Italy) and Limited Transit Log (Greece) to restart the clock).

So for example sailing from Italy to Greece the person stays in the EU, but the boat leaves from Italy and reenters Greece, and the 18 month clock is reset. The people on board have not left the EU.

[rpelton]

Thanks for all of the great input.
I am going to see if I can get more information at the French embassy in DC (the boat is currently laid up in France.
I'll report back with what I find out.
Bobby