chlorine in aluminium water tank

[a64pilot]

My aluminum tank has a lot of what we call lime in it, I believe essentially calcium carbonate as most aquifers are filled with calcium carbonate rocks that readily dissolve into the water, creating these great caves to dive in

Anyway I believe that all this lime is a buffer for "aggressive" water, if I start getting water that has room to dissolve minerals into it, it will first dissolve the lime before attacking the aluminum.


But I think a drinking water RO system leaves quite a lot of dissolved minerals in the water if I'm not mistaken and this isn't much of an issue.

[JstaRebel]

Originally Posted by Dulcesuenos

If you use dock water , w minerals, chlorinated or other, it caustic enough that over time can cause pitting etc in your tank which is also leaching of aluminum. RO or distilled water equally aggressive In its own way in that it can Leach metals from stainless, al, from aluminum and bpa's ,& pthallates (sp?) From certain plastics. (Polyethylene is OK). So pretty much whatever you put in your aluminum tank, some sort of reaction will happen over the next 20-40 years.
Again there have been Zero conclusive studies showing a link between aluminum in water and health issues.
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Really?? I'd suggest that you look at AAMI (American Association of Medical Instrumentation) water guidelines for Dialysis water treatment. (AL in h20 effects of a person on Dialsyis) Also check out Aluminum in waters connection with Dementia and Alzheimer. You are correct in that "Pure water takes on a bit of everything it touches" including certain plastics, copper, zinc, nickel from Stainless.. Everything. Which is why it is so important to be SURE that what you store your water in (especially Purified water (RO) ) is compatible and will NOT leach.

[a64pilot]

I believe too that unfortunately you cannot disinfect your water tank with Hydrogen Peroxide, the quantity to do so would simply be too great.
I have been trying to find a way to disinfect my tank and the only way besides Chlorine or Bromine that I can find is UV light and it won't really disinfect the water, but maybe it will an empty tank, apparently UV light is very quickly absorbed by water meaning its absorbed in a few inches? So you would need a UV source every few inches.
But maybe if you can fill an empty tank with UV it will disinfect the tank anyway?

[Dulcesuenos]

Jstarebel, Is that the report from the 50's or 60's your referring to regarding alzheimers/ dementia? In fact a top DR at one of the largest Alzheimer centers in the country claims there is no connection between aluminum intake and Alzheimer's disease. I have seen zero conclusive data regarding it. If you can cite something somewhat current that would be great.

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[JstaRebel]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

"Real" RO water, and I do not mean to offend either Rich or Tellie, but RO water like what is used for Hemodialysis is essentially so pure that it will leach any metals it can, see water is of course the universal solvent and usually has lots of dissolved minerals etc in it, but "real" RO water is pretty much just pure water and will aggressively attack pipes etc.
I believe it is also not the best thing for you to drink.

But I believe our watermakers do not supply anything near to the level of "pure" water of a "real" RO unit, the TDS of a "real" RO unit would of course always read zero, and you do not want to drink pure water, I believe it would leech minerals from your body.

No its not poisonous but long term its not the best for you, plus it tastes like crap too.

The membranes for our watermakers and those used for dialysis are exactly the same. The difference is the feed water quality. One uses city water (dialysis), and we of course use seawater. Big difference removing 99% of 250 conductivity water (city water), and 35,000 conductivity (seawater). However, The issue with aggressive RO water has really nothing to do with Conductivity or TDS but everything to do with the lack of alkalinity in the treated water which is what makes it aggressive. It is common practice in fact to run permeate (product) water from a SWRO plant upflow through Calcium Carbonate reactor tanks in an effort to add some alkalinity back to the water. Even then, most industrial SWRO companies inject a poly phosphate blend to coat any metal piping as well as the chillers, boilers, water heaters and cooling towers to help insure the aggressiveness of the SWRO permeate will not be a maintenance factor for the client.

[JstaRebel]

Originally Posted by Dulcesuenos

Jstarebel, Is that the report from the 50's or 60's your referring to regarding alzheimers/ dementia? In fact a top DR at one of the largest Alzheimer centers in the country claims there is no connection between aluminum intake and Alzheimer's disease. I have seen zero conclusive data regarding it. If you can cite something somewhat current that would be great.

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Yep.. and I've seen ZERO conclusive studies on global warming, but can't figure out why all of our worlds glaciers are disappearing..

And the Dialysis patients?? Have you googled that yet?? Be interesting to see your rebuttal on that.

[JstaRebel]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I believe too that unfortunately you cannot disinfect your water tank with Hydrogen Peroxide, the quantity to do so would simply be too great.
I have been trying to find a way to disinfect my tank and the only way besides Chlorine or Bromine that I can find is UV light and it won't really disinfect the water, but maybe it will an empty tank, apparently UV light is very quickly absorbed by water meaning its absorbed in a few inches? So you would need a UV source every few inches.
But maybe if you can fill an empty tank with UV it will disinfect the tank anyway?

Peroxide (Peracetic acid) in 5% solution is what is used to disinfect a Dialysis loop and storage tank if used. it is also used to remove Bio Film as well as other pure water loops and systems. The issue is the amount of water needed to flush and the lack of public knowledge on using it safely and correctly.
Peracetic acid as a disinfectant

[a64pilot]

Formaldehyde used to be used for the storage of used membranes for dialysis and disinfection of the equipment, has that changed?
The membranes are used several times.


Assuming I could get peracetic acid, how much would I need to disinfect a 157 gl tank, and how does it react to aluminum? It would seem to be worse than chlorine?

[Dulcesuenos]

Originally Posted by JstaRebel

And the Dialysis patients?? Have you googled that yet?? Be interesting to see your rebuttal on that.

I will take a stab at it. It said that aluminum toxicity cases are extremely rare and there have been no reported outbreaks of it since 1992. Of the few dialysis patients that had the issue with it I found the following.
" An investigation was conducted by the Wyoming Department of Health, which determined that the source of exposure was dialysate acid concentrate that became contaminated with aluminum as it passed through two electric drum pumps. The drum pumps had been used to transfer dialysate acid concentrate from 55-gallon storage drums to 1-gallon jugs for use on individual hemodialysis machines. Removal of the pumps from service resulted in a rapid reduction in patient serum aluminum levels. The findings suggest that regular assessment of machine compatibility with dialysate fluid is needed."
So I'm just guessing it was the acid concentrate that eroded the internal parts of the pumps causing elevated levels of aluminum.
I seriously would like to know how this is a concern to cruisers without kidney issues ?

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[Panope]

Originally Posted by jannw

Yes, all aluminium tanks seem to get it after time ... apparently due to chlorine in the tap water ... it's ?aluminium?chloride? and manifests as slime and/or white rock-crystals ... best advice seems to be charcoal filter on the way in to remove the chlorine, mesh filter on the way out for the white crystals and a charcoal filter to remove the off smell and taste, and use hydrogen peroxide rather than chlorine if you need to treat water for bio-contamination.

Apparently it's harmless ... but doesn't taste or look so good.

I'm also in the middle of attempting to resolve this issue. Drop me a line if you happen on a good solution.

So far I've drained the tanks (thank god for wet/dry vacuums) and wire brushed by hand (which doesn't do much for the white AlCl residue, which is hard as nails). I'm next going to use mechanical abrasion (wire wheel) to try to shift the white crystals. Considering then to either leave it or to coat with food grade water tank paint (?tar?paint? or ?food?grade?epoxy).

I asked my friendly local aluminium boat builder whet they did, and they deliver the tanks raw and un-coated.

Perhaps Panope might have a good/better idea?

My only additional thought, is sandblasting might be a better way to remove the white crystals and will be the best preparation for epoxy coating. Someday, I will do this.

My tanks are un-coated and have remained free of biological growth for 40+ years. Some shallow pitting has occurred along with some white crystal bits. Tanks have been filled with unfiltered city water for the past 20 years.

Steve

[topmast]

My aluminium water tanks (4 x 200 l) were 3/16 plate with baffles .Lasted well on mountain water for 25 yrs but seemed to build deposits with city water. Finally the only thing holding in the water was the crud. Skill sawed the tops, wire brushed the total area and laid in epoxy and glass .The full monty in reverse. Last coats were special potable tank grade. .Doable but suggest you keep the cat out of the tanks while slathering the material. It was a beast of a job but well worth it as options were even worse. The improvement was marked and I got'r done before the dementia set in.

[crabcake]

UV is used in swimming pools, including large public pools, in place of chlorine to disinfect the pool water.

There are quite a few articles on their usage.

Here is one

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by crabcake

UV is used in swimming pools, including large public pools, in place of chlorine to disinfect the pool water.

There are quite a few articles on their usage.

Here is one

Yes, but that is sanitizing the water, not the pool. The UV has no residual germicidal effect, meaning of course the germs are killed only when the UV light is strong enough to do so.
There are many UV light drinking water sanitizers meant for residential use for sale, I don't know how effective they are, but many are for sale.
You can use UV to sanitize your water in what looks like a filter as you use it, but it's not going to get rid of anything you have in your tank unfortunately.
Think of it like a good germicidal filter.


On edit, not so sure they replace chlorine, maybe augment it and allow lower chlorine levels, but replace it?

[crabcake]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Yes, but that is sanitizing the water, not the pool. The UV has no residual germicidal effect, meaning of course the germs are killed only when the UV light is strong enough to do so.
There are many UV light drinking water sanitizers meant for residential use for sale, I don't know how effective they are, but many are for sale.
You can use UV to sanitize your water in what looks like a filter as you use it, but it's not going to get rid of anything you have in your tank unfortunately.
Think of it like a good germicidal filter.


On edit, not so sure they replace chlorine, maybe augment it and allow lower chlorine levels, but replace it?

Understand what you're saying, but if the water is sanitized before it gets to you for drinking and other purposes, what real difference does it make?

I understand the concept of wanting a completely clean water delivery system. But even many public water systems aren't the cleanest, and probably not as clean as many cruisers' systems.

[Striker37]

If you want to neutralize the chlorine in your water you can use a swimming pool product.2 oz treats 10,000 gallons.

Pool Chlorine Neutralizer - Pool Chemicals - PoolProducts.com