Budget Be Damned

[sailorboy1]

Damn so what!!!!!!!

I would come home everyday having personally touched and effected probably $50M worth of equipment that impacted $1B worth of business operations.

You know what that has to do with the topic???????????????????????????

That's right, NOT a freaking thing!

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Did somewhere on the thread, but:

If I were still working and doing the same as I was before leaving to cruise I would have probably around $200-250k more in assets than now.

And my second heart attack, a knee replacement or 2, the and a "kill me now please" attitude.

In the end the only real lost opportunity is ............................. life!

Got it in one.

So many work their ring out to retirement age thinking they are setting themselves up for the rest of their life only to pop their clogs shortly after
My uncle was a recent victim to this, nose to the wheel, few holidays but so much "stuff" but all totally worthless when you're dead.

[dwedeking2]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

None was required I guess, you don’t need things like autopilots and windlasses, but they sure make life easier

When I bought my second boat I had to move it all the way around Florida from Ft Myers to Jacksonville. Previously my plans were to build it out with a full electronics suite from B&G, all the gadgets etc. Between Ft Myers and Jacksonville systems failed and I became a hull with sails. My electrical was powered by a backpacking solar panel (for tablet, phone and inreach) Engine dead. Auto pilot dead.

I sailed from Jacksonville to Key West in much the same condition late last year.

My take away. I "need" a lot less than I thought I did.

Back to the money discussion this experience has taken me from a $10k b&g awesome high tech solution to a $1500 CPT and tablet navigation system. I just need it to hold a line so I can get a nap or beer. I don't need to know that the wind is 14.2 knots vs 13.8 knots.

[kmacdonald]

I would guess that most cruisers accumulated wealth in the stock market. They didn't get there with a passbook savings account. Investing isn't difficult, the most important being don't try and time the market. I've timed it a few times and won big (relatively) but that's not the usual outcome for most nor is it necessary to be a successful investor. Trying to predict the future of the market with complex formulas is foolish. The market isn't a physical principal mathematically describable. Past performance is no prediction of the future. The market movers are driven by investor emotion and very often defy logic. When the markets look like there is not bottom, bet the farm on it, and then some.

[a64pilot]

I accumulated no wealth through the market, mine was accumulated via savings, the passbook you mention basically, and selling what little property I had accumulated and paid for. That and a Retirement Pension, and I guess the 401k was the market of course.
Now I don’t have all that much wealth, but yes you can accumulate wealth without playing the market.

[Mike OReilly]

Kinda funny that a thread titled “budget be damned” has turned into a discussion about how to generate the largest budget .

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Kinda funny that a thread titled “budget be damned” has turned into a discussion about how to generate the largest budget .

The best way to damn a budget is to kill it with kindness...

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

An issue is that the Stock Market during that time has been performing at nearly an all time high.
That isn’t sustainable long term I don’t think. I’m glad it’s been doing so well, my net worth has increased slightly over the past few years after Retirement.
However I feel that will come to an end eventually, and then we will all pay the piper.

Indeed, and that's really the heart of the matter.


Asset values go up and down, and then hopefully go up a little more the next cycle than they went down in the last one. They are fairly long cycles, and "in the long run we are all dead", and that run is less and less long as we get older.


What you gain in the good times has to last through the bad times, and SailorBoy has spent that gain during the good times.



I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that -- on the contrary, money is fundamentally for spending. SailorBoy said "the only opportunity cost is life" -- now THAT is a fundamental truth. But one should not pretend that this is a sustainable model -- that the assets will just grow and grow into infinity, allowing you to live forever off the increase. SailorBoy has spent the asset growth of one cycle, over half a cycle -- that's what it boils down to. He is not eating his cake and having it too -- he's eating it.


Which is what cake is for. But when it's gone, one needs to be ready to bake some more.



I think the biggest mistake people make in this area is not how they invest or save or don't do that, but how they spend their lives in occupations they don't love. That's what makes people want to hoard (which is different from investing) some meager stake which will allow them to quit productive life and just goof off. I don't think this is healthy. I don't think a healthy balance between work and play ends at age 65 or whatever, and I don't think having some period of just goofing off makes up for having wasted a lifetime doing something you hate. All this is something which needs to be worked out much earlier in life.

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I accumulated no wealth through the market, mine was accumulated via savings, the passbook you mention basically, and selling what little property I had accumulated and paid for. That and a Retirement Pension, and I guess the 401k was the market of course.
Now I don’t have all that much wealth, but yes you can accumulate wealth without playing the market.

I really admire that. It's doing it the hard way for sure. I'll stick with the market and do it the easy way. Yes, I'm lazy.

[sailorboy1]

Started with a baking plan

Haven’t had to turn on the oven and have pretty much the same amount of flour.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Started with a baking plan

Haven’t had to turn on the oven and have pretty much the same amount of flour.

Ha, ha. Good for you


Keep the flour dry


And enjoy life!

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

I really admire that. It's doing it the hard way for sure. I'll stick with the market and do it the easy way. Yes, I'm lazy.

Joe Kennedy said that when shoeshine boys start to give market advice, it's time to get out -- didn't someone quote that in this thread?


When they start to refer to the market as easier than working -- then it's time to short the market!


I'm not calling you a shoeshine boy, KMac But that's just a metaphor -- Kennedy was talking about what happens when people of different walks of life, people who would not otherwise be involved in finance of any kind, flock to the market thinking it's an easy way to make a quick buck. This itself inflates the markets and leads to crashes.


Good analysis here: WHEN THE SHOESHINE BOYS TALK STOCKS IT WAS A GREAT SELL SIGNAL IN 1929. SO WHAT ARE THE SHOESHINE BOYS TALKING ABOUT NOW? - April 15, 1996

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Joe Kennedy said that when shoeshine boys start to give market advice, it's time to get out -- didn't someone quote that in this thread?


When they start to refer to the market as easier than working -- then it's time to short the market!


I'm not calling you a shoeshine boy, KMac But that's just a metaphor -- Kennedy was talking about what happens when people of different walks of life, people who would not otherwise be involved in finance of any kind, flock to the market thinking it's an easy way to make a quick buck. This itself inflates the markets and leads to crashes.


Good analysis here: WHEN THE SHOESHINE BOYS TALK STOCKS IT WAS A GREAT SELL SIGNAL IN 1929. SO WHAT ARE THE SHOESHINE BOYS TALKING ABOUT NOW? - April 15, 1996

Yes, that's very true. Brokers take advantage of "shoeshine boys" also to manipulate stock prices. The fact that the average mutual fund under performs the market is statistical proof of fraud.
Investing isn't for everyone. You do have to dedicate yourself to do a little research on your own and have some risk tolerance.

I've never heard of anyone "saving" their way to a fortune.

[chowdan]

Originally Posted by thomm225

You might want to rephrase that to some of the young folks out there.

The young backhoe operator I saw this morning while stopped at a redlight may not be able to take time off and travel

Also the guy that delivered 24 UPS batteries to me one early evening when it was going on 6pm. He said he had started at 4am.

I'm thinking he may not be one of the group of young folks that can take time off and travel for a couple years either.

These young guys are pursuing the happiness of feeding their families and paying their rent.

But if you are lucky enough to leave near the coast and are not making big money you can still sail/race/cruise locally which is great and you gain tons of experience without taking any extra time off from work!

I dont know if i believe that. I move to the USA when I turned 18. I've never been to college, in fact I tried to go but was declined financial aid. I have had zero assistance from family members.

My first year in the US I made $16k(2009). I moved to Seattle with $1000 in 2010 and that year I made $22k(+/-). The next year I broke 30k and was stuck in that rate for about 3 years before I got a bump to $45k(different company). From there I went to 85k and was at that rate for a year and a half before i set off on my trip. I came back in 2018, bought my sailboat, worked as a glazier for $18/hr for 6 months while also starting my own contracting company before returning back to IT where I now make 95k.

Yes I may be an outlier. Yes I may be considered different than an average person. I sacrificed a ton in my life to achieve what I have achieved

The guy running a backhoe could easily follow in the same foot steps, he just needs to re-prioritize their goals. Yes they may be struggling to pay rent, or trying to feed a family. Its not hard to spend free time to learn something that brings in higher pay, one just has to have drive. I would say an average person in america has "fat" in their expenses that they can cut to gain savings if that's their goal.

Of course there will be outliers who have made prior choices that screw their future selves or have unexpected medical bill's but i believe by having minimal debt I was able to not screw my future self.

Maybe I'm just jaded, or have an incredible drive, or am just pure lucky, but I look at a lot of friends and coworkers who have struggled along the side of me, yet I have rose above them financially and I believe that is because of my drive to achieve my goals which in turn, caused me to sacrifice a lot throughout the last 9 years.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

Yes, that's very true. Brokers take advantage of "shoeshine boys" also to manipulate stock prices. The fact that the average mutual fund under performs the market is statistical proof of fraud.
Investing isn't for everyone. You do have to dedicate yourself to do a little research on your own and have some risk tolerance.
I've never heard of anyone "saving" their way to a fortune but I'm sure another moderator will offer up a mediocre example as proof I'm wrong.

Sounds to me like its nothing more than gambling and luck no matter how much research you put into it.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TGwZVGKG30s