36' Rule for Liveaboard

[roberthowell]

Was a live aboard on a 55 sportfish for 5 years with what is now my wife. The marina charged an extra live aboard fee plus a huge marked up electric bill . The facility was poorly maintained (the only marina close to work). What was finally the final straw was all the looky loos that thought it just there right to come down the docks and stare through the windows or even board the boat. did like not having to cut the grass though.

[Bentwings]

I waded through this thread as I’ll be live aboard next year. There just isn’t time enough to get fully prepared for a Minnesota winter on the river.

I’ve visited at least a half a dozen marinas and in every one there was at least one derelict “boat”. One marina was extremely nice with all the amenities and many very new expensive boats. A good many I couldn’t even afford to come aboard if invited. The floating wreck was parked at the very first slip on the main dock entrance. It looked like someone had planted an old RV on a home made pontoon. I didn’t see any motors. It really was a classic. Torn Fish nets hanging around, hanging lanterns, a couple half sunken canoes and junk everywhere. Were I a new customer I think I might wonder about the politics this boat owner had on the marina owners. Frankly it was a turn off.

I’m not suit and tie myself and some say I’m more on the “Linus “ scale. Mechanical work is just something I do and I can get real messy sometimes but I do clean up and try to keep my boat as nice as possible.

So I just moved into a local marina with my new old boat. I thought I might be the ghost ship on this pier but my lowly 34 foot express cruiser fills a 40 foot slip from one end to the other plus a foot or so. There are half a dozen house boats smaller than my boat and a bunch of smaller cruisers. Most are at least as old as my boat. All are kept pretty nice and neat. Dock cords and hoses are coiled nicely and there are only a few boarding devices on individual slips.

The ghost ship again is the front runner with torn nets, grubby boxes, an old Johnson 5 hp classic is on the transom, a half sunken canoe and a row boat full of junk. Once again an RV on an old pontoon. Oh yeah a 4 foot pirate skull and bones flag on a bent pole. At least so far I haven’t heard a sound out of it and only a small glowing light at night.

My luxury apt where I’m living until spring get almost daily visits from the cops. Someone said they observed a drug deal in the parking lot. Weekly car break ins in the under ground garage, one of my cars had a window smashed last week. My truck has been hit at least twice, rampant dog issues. I have a highly trained dog and pick up after her. Others do not even with apt provided poop bags. The list goes on.

So it’s not only at the marinas. I’m not against size limits or even type of boat if behavior is reasonable. If someone wants to live in an outhouse it’s ok if they are a reasonable person. I rather have that than a spit shine ...... So far it’s a giant step from the “ getto” I currently live in. People have been very friendly and helpful even with the cold rainy weather we have had for the last couple weeks.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Bentwings

I waded through this thread as I’ll be live aboard next year. There just isn’t time enough to get fully prepared for a Minnesota winter on the river.

I’ve visited at least a half a dozen marinas and in every one there was at least one derelict “boat”. One marina was extremely nice with all the amenities and many very new expensive boats. A good many I couldn’t even afford to come aboard if invited. The floating wreck was parked at the very first slip on the main dock entrance. It looked like someone had planted an old RV on a home made pontoon. I didn’t see any motors. It really was a classic. Torn Fish nets hanging around, hanging lanterns, a couple half sunken canoes and junk everywhere. Were I a new customer I think I might wonder about the politics this boat owner had on the marina owners. Frankly it was a turn off.

I’m not suit and tie myself and some say I’m more on the “Linus “ scale. Mechanical work is just something I do and I can get real messy sometimes but I do clean up and try to keep my boat as nice as possible.

So I just moved into a local marina with my new old boat. I thought I might be the ghost ship on this pier but my lowly 34 foot express cruiser fills a 40 foot slip from one end to the other plus a foot or so. There are half a dozen house boats smaller than my boat and a bunch of smaller cruisers. Most are at least as old as my boat. All are kept pretty nice and neat. Dock cords and hoses are coiled nicely and there are only a few boarding devices on individual slips.

The ghost ship again is the front runner with torn nets, grubby boxes, an old Johnson 5 hp classic is on the transom, a half sunken canoe and a row boat full of junk. Once again an RV on an old pontoon. Oh yeah a 4 foot pirate skull and bones flag on a bent pole. At least so far I haven’t heard a sound out of it and only a small glowing light at night.

My luxury apt where I’m living until spring get almost daily visits from the cops. Someone said they observed a drug deal in the parking lot. Weekly car break ins in the under ground garage, one of my cars had a window smashed last week. My truck has been hit at least twice, rampant dog issues. I have a highly trained dog and pick up after her. Others do not even with apt provided poop bags. The list goes on.

So it’s not only at the marinas. I’m not against size limits or even type of boat if behavior is reasonable. If someone wants to live in an outhouse it’s ok if they are a reasonable person. I rather have that than a spit shine ...... So far it’s a giant step from the “ getto” I currently live in. People have been very friendly and helpful even with the cold rainy weather we have had for the last couple weeks.

I wish you the best with a bio that bad.

[sailingpippin]

I live aboard my 30 foot Nonsuch at the Charlestown Marina in Boston Harbor , massachusetts USA. This Marina has no restrictions on length of liveaboard boats. They do have an annual live aboard fee of 750$ in addition to the normal per foot fees.

[Curtpat]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

Having been in a marina that let anyone live aboard any size, I can say generally (there are exceptions) that the type of person who will live aboard a 25’ boat is not the type of tenant that a reputable business wants around. This sucks, for those of us who are not them, but a bad egg can ruin an omelet.

Wow you are so off base here, stereotype lately?
There are many like me who live aboard a small boat that are not rifraf.
My Beneteau 31 cost me $80k and I am a working professional.
At the same time I have seen many lives boards in the 34-45 foot range that belong in the scrap yard. For a marina to limit luvaboards by size is stupid. If a marina doesn’t want to turn into a floating trailer park then raise the rates.
Rant over

[secrabtree]

Originally Posted by grahamj

I would guess they want a minimum fee for liveaboards. If you offer them the same rate as a 36 footer the objection will likely evaporate.

This reason may stand up in the east, but in all of the marinas that I have experience with on the Pacific coast of the US and Mexico and Hawaii the rental fee was per berth foot, not boat foot (except in the exceptional case where the harbormaster allowed me to put my 39' boat in a 35' berth). I've been in marinas where all that was available wwere 50' and longer berths and I paid for a 50' berth until a 40' was available. One other exception - In Cabo San Lucas I was charged for a 40' berth when all that was available was a 4th-out side tie, not even a berth.[QUOTE=ponderings;2732922]

[aeronautic1]

You need a bigger boat

[sailorladd]

That would be a ridiculous requirement, and I have stayed in several marinas around the world, and NEVER heard of that.... it's like saying you cannot use our roads with a car with less than a V8 engine, or you cannot be a fireman if you are not a man... lol or banning single handed sailing...marinas are in existence due to boat owners and the revenue they generate, DON'T bite the hand that feeds!!!

[Sea Story]

I've been a legal live-aboard for 6 months out of the year for the past 10 years. During that time I've resided in marinas from the San Francisco Bay Area all the way to Puerta Vallarta and dealt with nearly all the issues discussed here at one time or another. In every case, the factor that most affected the the quality of marina life was the active, involved role of Marina management.

Boat length, operability, absentee owners and all the rest of the things mentioned here are considerations, but nothing matters nearly as much as managers who did due dilligence in screening boats and owners, routinely walk the docks, and enforce reasonable rules.

My current Marina has an extraordinary high 50% live-aboard percentage. It is always filled to near capacity (unlike all the other marinas in the harbor), has almost no theft from boats and the supporting infrastructure is better and cleaner than anywhere else I've been. Perhaps most importantly, the managers (a couple) live on their own boat - in the Marina. They walk the docks, come to the dock parties, and they are - quite simply - members of our community.

Sure, we have our own issues. We have a few dock queens that haven't been cleaned for years, we also have some human derelicts, a neighbor squabble once in awhile and some rules that seem more arbitrary than useful. But the bottom line is that good management keeps us all in line (mostly) and on good terms with the rest of our community. No single rule would be enough to accomplish that by - and of - itself.

[Auminer]

Originally Posted by roverhi

Oh, if you use the marina facilities, which you pay for, you are a problem. What's over use the facilities?? Every marina I've been is a ghost land during the week and often the same on weekends in the off season, even in areas with mild winters. Maybe the live aboards take up two parking spaces but that's probably the case no matter the size of the boat.

Yes live aboards can be a pain for the management because they are there everyday and expect things they are paying for to be available and work. Yes there can be a problem with a trashed non seaworthy boat. That's really a failing of the management not ensuring that boats be capable of going out, even if it's just a short run around a buoy. My slip mate now is a live aboard and has been for 20 plus years. His boat is a 26' 50 year old Pearson. The boat is not pristine but is very seaworthy that he takes on regular multi day excursions and no clutter. Across the way is a non live aboard, few feet longer, few years old boat that looks like they are using it for a storage space.

Think that the length minimums are an easy way for the marina to discourage lower income live aboards. After all, can't have 'those people' mingling with the economically privileged.

Bingo!

[aeronautic1]

Originally Posted by aeronautic1

You need a bigger boat

The rule I use is this: If you have to stand up to reach around to wipe your aft,, you need a bigger boat

[Cadence]

It apparently is different in parts of the US and the world. Equating private marinas to public roads, I don't think so. It is probably driven by availability of slips. It appears the "Left" coast of the US is entirely different than the Gulf or East coasts. It becomes somewhat of a moot point to argue it.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by wrwakefield

An extreme example, perhaps, but very real.

It's not extreme, there are lots of these around in marinas. Good thing he didn't have a 24 footer, it'd be piled twice as high.

Originally Posted by wrwakefield

...The most effective preventative safeguard I've seen is the requirement for insurance [liability with minimum coverage stipulated] and the requirement to demonstrate the vessel can depart, maneuver, and re-dock under its own power upon advance written notice.

The requirements described above are spot-on, and the vessel movement requirement should be demonstrated annually.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by gmakhs

Why do marinas hate live aboardss? What it matter if someone live aboard on 40 or 30 feet ?

It's to get rid of the rif-raf. Everybody knows that anyone who wants to live on a boat must be a hippy, is poo'ing in the water, and will probably steal something from the proper folks

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Jammer

At best, liveaboards increase costs for the marina by making heavier use of shared services.

This is actually false. We did a study on this in Seattle many years ago. The cost of garbage pick up was insignificant. The use of the parking lot (two cars) was less of an impact than when the weekender has his six friends over for a day sail and they all want to park their cars. Water, it can be metered, same with electricity. Laundry? it can be a money maker. Most of the marina's expenses are fixed, it costs them nothing more for a boot with a person on it than an empty one.

Originally Posted by Jammer

In many cases, liveaboards create a disproportionate share of problems for the marina management....

Yes, the marina officials have to deal with liveaboard tenants more often, usually about something that does not work or needs to be changed. if there is a tenant standing in the office to complain about the broken marina toilet, that's a liveaboard problem? OK, neighbor's dog complaints are a PITA, live with it, these liveaboard tenants are your best friends, actually

Originally Posted by Jammer

Because people on smaller boats are more likely to overuse shared marina resources due to a lack of sufficient space on board. Also, many people living aboard smaller vessels are in a financially precarious position.

This is an assumption, and not a fair one.

Now consider the benefit to the marina. Security is the big one. The liveaboard sees everything and reports it, which reduces the number of marina staff required to walk the docks. In my marina that is a big issue. Safety (related to security): who are the first responders in a problem situation in the marina? A liveaboard fee can make a difference in the income of the marina. There are other benefits. Nope, this is good for a marina, not bad.