Yacht purchase in Italy

[Stoney01]

Hi all,

We are new to the site and looking to buy a yacht for an extended sail in the Med. Along with having a professional survey and a lawyer to manage the contract, we will register her in the UK and make sure VAT is paid...so we have no future problems!

Can anyone share any experience or give any tips on buying a boat in Italy?

Cheers

Rob

[ioniansailor]

I, too, am thinking of buying a boat in Italy and am totally ignorant of the process in Italy, so will follow this thread with interest. I was told some time ago that mortgages on Italian registered yachts are not recorded in their equivalent of the SSR, so you can get a nightmare situation of buying a boat and then finding yourself liable for the mortgage! Hope I was mis-informed!

[Stoney01]

Thanks for the reply.

Definitely a case of buyer beware. I was hoping that some forum members may be able to provide some experiences, good or bad.

[bikesherpa]

I am Italian, own a boat in Italy and purchased a few used ones over the years.

Your information about mortgages on boats is false. A mortgage ("mutuo") to be valid in Italy must be registered at the RID ("Registro Italiano Diporto"). This registry is kept by the harbour master ("Capitaneria di Porto") where the boat is registered. It is quite simple to do a check of the RID and it will also show who the owner is.
In any case, it is very uncommon to have a mortgage on a boat in Italy. It is much more common to find boats under a "lease", in which case the ownership of the boat belongs to the financial institution that lent the money. It is all shown at the RID. It is also shown on the boat license (if updated).

To transfer the ownership of a "registered" boat in Italy (i.e. a boat >10m or anyway having a license plate), you should follow this process:

- sign the sale deed in front of a public notary ("notaio"). The notary in Italy is a public official and it makes sure that the deed is legal and valid.
- pay the "ownership transfer" tax ("passaggio di proprieta'"). This can be done using the "F24" form at any bank or post office in Italy. The tax is €400-1000 depending on boat size
- register the sale deed at the local office of "Agenzie delle Entrate" (the state treasury office)
- register the transfer at the RID of the Capitaneria di Porto. You have to give them the boat license, all the paperwork and pay some additional small fees. After a few weeks, the Capitaneria will send you the updated license.
If you want to change the flag of the vessel, you'd need instead to submit to the Capitaneria the request to cancel the vessel from the Italian registry. Once you get that paper, you'd submit it to the new country.

The process is cumbersome, but of course you can ask an agency ("agenzia pratiche nautiche") to do the above for you.

I'd give you also these general advices:
- hire an Italian (reputable) surveyor in the process. They'd help you a lot and work for you, knowing the local market, the boats, the shipyards, the process to follow, etc. PM me if you need some references.
- pay just a small amount of money when you sign the pre-sale agreement. The full payment has to be made in front of the notary, when the final sale deed is signed. This payment is usually done using a cashier's check issued by a bank ("assegno circolare")
- Brokers have no legal obligations in Italy regarding the successful completion of the sale transaction or the misrepresentation of the boat. Therefore, you should hire a surveyor

I hope this will help.
Jacopo













Anyway, to transfer

[Stoney01]

Thanks Jacopo,

Very useful and informative

I'll pm you.

Cheers

Rob

[ioniansailor]

Jacopo,

Thank you very much for your helpful description of the boat buying process.
Now have to go and find the boat!

[Stoney01]

[monte]

Interesting you are both looking at Italy. Why is that? I guess there are some deals to be had?
I would also be looking closely at Croatia, given that they have just recently joined the EU and had low VAT rates for yachts at 10%, there may be some owners that need less €€€ to break even. There's also a lot more yachts and yachting around Croatia than Italy.

[Stoney01]

Hi Monte,

We are looking to buy anywhere in Euro land given current rate against the £. We have looked at Croatia but most of what we saw were ex-charter yachts (high hours, etc) and also 4 cab versions, where we want 3 max. We noticed a couple of interesting Hanse 470's, hence the interest and request for any advice.

Our current yachts of interest are Hanse 470/540, SO 45/50DS or Oceanis 50.

We already have a couple of charters booked in the Med this year and work commitments are looking like it will now be an early 2016 start to our extended trip. Will probably wait till the end of the season to buy, unless we find a real bargain beforehand :-)

Cheers

Rob

[monte]

Sounds like a good plan

[Stoney01]

One other potential option that has been suggested is buying a new boat in Gibraltar VAT free on a UK flag. Seems there is a scheme to be able to sail her for up to 18 months within the EU where you can defer the VAT payment or take it outside of the EU. One of potential plans is to make our way to Turkey and maybe put her into charter there.

May just start another discussion on this topichttp://www.cruisersforum.com/images/icons2/icon_rolleyes.gif

[ioniansailor]

I am looking to buy a second hand Grand Soleil and there are quite a few for sale in Italy where they are made. I want one that has been privately owned. Most of the ones for sale in Croatia appear to be ex charter.

[Emmalina]

I have sold a couple in Italy one from the UK and one I bought in Croatia. I have also bought in Italy and SSR'd the boat. I would consider Croatia if your intention is to sail around the Adriatic. Not that bad on paperwork bet then again it was always a straight purchase or sale never with loans etc.

[Tbell]

Jacobo

I am traveling to Italy next week to look at a few boats and need a surveyor. Can you recommend any?

TBell


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[Polux]

Originally Posted by Tbell

Jacobo

I am traveling to Italy next week to look at a few boats and need a surveyor. Can you recommend any?

TBell...m

I bought my boat in Italy and even if I am not Italian I have kept it there on the last 3 years, since i found good service at reasonable prices and cheap parking near the airport.

I can recommend a surveyor to you. It is the guy that supervises that shipyard with good services, a very experienced one. It become a friend.
If you are interested PM me.

Regarding more information, it may be useful to take the services of a good agency that in Italy, if I am not mistaken, have some notary powers and will help you with the contract. It was very helpful on my case.

Be aware of a strange situation: In Italy the advertised price is not generally what you have to pay since you have to add the commission to the broker. Kind of odd but in Italy that commission is payed half by the seller and half by the buyer. The commission by the owner is included on the price, your part normally not.

Regarding the ones that had asked why Italy was a good place to buy a boat I would say that if you don't want a ex charter boat (that is cheaper but it is much more "used") Italy, Spain and Portugal are probably the best places. The crisis hit there harder then anywhere and many owners had to sell the boat. With a big offer the boats prices come down.

Italy is particularly good if you want a recent boat (less than 10 years old). The Italians love sailboats and the ones that can, like to have new ones so, used recent boats are many and again the price comes down due to the big offer. Particularly interesting prices can be find on performance cruisers, specially Italian ones like Grand Soleil and Comet but also with other boats. Look here for boats in Italy:
Yacht e barche usate in vendita, Annunci Yacht Usati, cerco barche ed Yacht usati in vendita

Regarding Brokers there is one that I like, that is linked the used boats of Grand Soleil (not necessarily Grand Soleil). He can offer you very good price modifications or service made by the guys from Grand Soleil shipyard as he offers you one year warranty on the boat.
http://www.grandsoleil.net/index.php...1-82ecbc875912