Yacht purchase in Italy

[bikesherpa]

Originally Posted by Tbell

Jacobo

I am traveling to Italy next week to look at a few boats and need a surveyor. Can you recommend any?

TBell


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

Hi Tbell,
I have sent you some surveyor recommendations.

For those that are looking to purchase a boat in Italy, keep in mind that Italy has over 7000 km of coast and many ports.
Unless you are willing to travel up and down the peninsula a lot (which might be good for sightseeing and SWMBO!), you have to restrict your search to boats in a smaller area.

Also, the boat market in Italy has started to recover in 2015 and therefore big price discounts could become less common
After 7 years of crisis, the Italian boat industry returns above water in Genoa

[Munchi MIke]

Ahoy,
I am another sailor looking for a boat in Italy. I have read and re read the visa requirements for living in Italy and believe I qualify with my wife to stay a while and soak up some culture; four of five years or so, given sailing trips elsewhere using Italy as a base.
My quest for a yacht- A Wooden Yacht in Italy was conceived as a way to avoid VAT complications. I think I have discovered that a boat bought in Italy, with VAT paid and proven, would be more easily integrated as a live aboard around the Italian coast. There are plenty of good wooden boats in UK but Italy seems scarce. My sailing experience goes all the way back to '58 so that is not a question, our budget would be $50 or less for the yacht, and something with shoal draft that could be taken up the canals to UK a time or two. Aft cabins, sloops, ketches, no matter but roomy does.
I guess besides the search I am still wondering if this will work. Get a VAT paid boat in Italy, take out residence permit, bypass Schengen, tour the coast and beyond while maintaining some kind of Italian address, continue unabated. Can it be that easy? Do I still need an ICC coming from the US?

[boatman61]

Look in Greece for your wooden boat.. prices are really good there right now and jumping to Italy is no biggie..
For the French canals however you will need to get an inland waterways licence..

[Charlie]

Ciao Bikesherpa:

I purchased a boat in Italy and the owner has never forwarded me the de flagging papers. I had the boat in the UK system of SSR and now need to change it so need the de flagging papers. How would I go about getting proof that the boat has been deflagged?

Fairwinds,

Charlie

[Munchi MIke]

Boatman,
I will look in Greece. I only thought that a vessel already in the Italian system would be easier to keep there. You cite the waterways license. Is that different from the ICC?

[boatman61]

Yes.. its a completely different ticket.
As for the boat.. its a Schengen boat so no different from Italy.. if you can qualify/get Italian reg for a local boat then you should for any other EU boat.

[Munchi MIke]

Thanks,
I had an idea it was two, but it seems that the RBYA are the people to handle the ICC, I'll find the other too. Are they going to make me do the tests there, or can I do anything before then? My queerie about boats already in country is the wariness I've caught wind of about boats in Spain and their levying of use taxes/certificates and VAT on top of what's already in place for boats not already wearing Spanish home port advantage after too long a stay. (Certification three times a year at 800 pounds per) Lived in Spain ages ago but never knew anything about that. Guess the Gib is the safest way out of Spanish bureaucracy.

[bikesherpa]

Originally Posted by Charlie

Ciao Bikesherpa:

I purchased a boat in Italy and the owner has never forwarded me the de flagging papers. I had the boat in the UK system of SSR and now need to change it so need the de flagging papers. How would I go about getting proof that the boat has been deflagged?

Fairwinds,

Charlie

Does your boat have an Italian registry number (the one that is shown both on port and starboard topsides )? If you send me that number, I can find out what "Capitaneria" you should ask to.
The previous owner should have asked the Capitaneria a "nulla-osta" to de-register the boat from the Italian registry (called "RID"). If that paper is missed, the Capitaneria should be able to give you a copy.

[bikesherpa]

Originally Posted by Munchi MIke

Ahoy,
I am another sailor looking for a boat in Italy. I have read and re read the visa requirements for living in Italy and believe I qualify with my wife to stay a while and soak up some culture; four of five years or so, given sailing trips elsewhere using Italy as a base.
My quest for a yacht- A Wooden Yacht in Italy was conceived as a way to avoid VAT complications. I think I have discovered that a boat bought in Italy, with VAT paid and proven, would be more easily integrated as a live aboard around the Italian coast. There are plenty of good wooden boats in UK but Italy seems scarce. My sailing experience goes all the way back to '58 so that is not a question, our budget would be $50 or less for the yacht, and something with shoal draft that could be taken up the canals to UK a time or two. Aft cabins, sloops, ketches, no matter but roomy does.
I guess besides the search I am still wondering if this will work. Get a VAT paid boat in Italy, take out residence permit, bypass Schengen, tour the coast and beyond while maintaining some kind of Italian address, continue unabated. Can it be that easy? Do I still need an ICC coming from the US?

Any EU registered boat can stay in Italy indefinitely.

If you take residence in Italy and stay >183 days, however, you will become also a "tax" resident of the country.
If you are a tax resident of Italy and owns a non-italian boat, you will have to declare it on your yearly tax form ("RW" section of the form). You do not have to pay any tax on the boat, but the authorities just want to know about that. On the contrary, if the boat is Italian registered, you do not have to.

[Munchi MIke]

Bikesherpa,
Thanks for that information. This type of material is gold and can really only be found from someone who knows. Thanks again for local knowledge; I am still working things out.

[Charlie]

Ciao Bikesherpa:

The number I have on the paperwork is GE4096D

Thanks,

Charlie

[bikesherpa]

Originally Posted by Charlie

Ciao Bikesherpa:

The number I have on the paperwork is GE4096D

Charlie,
your boat was registered at the Genova harbour master (Capitaneria).

The following are the contact info of the "diporto" register (e.g. pleasure boats) of Genova.

Tel. 0102777350 - Fax. 0102777427 - e-mail. diporto.cpgenova@mit.gov.it
Iscrizione nei registri imbarcazioni diporto

Try ... email them and ask if the boat is still registered there and, if not, how you can get a copy of the "nulla osta" (you will probably have to pay some administrative fees for the copy). Provide full details of the boat, the previous owner and yourself with your request.
If you do not get an answer, I can try to call them.
If you are in a hurry, it can be faster if you hire an agency in Genova ("agenzia pratiche nautiche") who will go at the capitaneria office to get a copy of the paper.

[Tbell]

Munchi,

I have embarked on a similar tract to yours but going plastic after owning a wooden classic in the US for 15 years. I have the same concerns about the Schengen, altho' many site no problems, the penalties can be severe if discovered. With regard to the Visa process, you must obtain the Visa prior to arriving in Italy. Italy does not< repeat does not recognize a liveaboard situation as a residence-it requires a land-based structure with accommodation for the entire period of the Visa. This requires a visit to Italy prior to your "final trip" or doing it online. If you choose to rent, then a "registered lease" which is recorded or registered at the town hall and requires that you have a "codice fiscale" which is obtained at the Italian consulate in your home country. I learned of all this thru 3 painful visits at the embassy.

Bikesherpa has been very helpful to me and I am using one of the surveyors he supplied and am pleased with this arrangement. The VAT is anouther issue but can be addressed with short trips outside the Schengen. It is my understanding that holding a Visa for an extended time exposes you to VAT, again this may be avoided, reportedly?

I hope this helps and certainly support and understand your dream.

Fair seas,
TBell