Spend before you See...Time for a change?

[mvweebles]

To the OP: yes, it's you. It's not the system or the process or the broker. Your expectations are unreasonable. Given your travel, you are right to expect some accommodation in scheduling such as viewing in off-hours, help with ground travel, assurance a proper sea trial can be scheduled (after a proper contract) etc. But, in my opinion, you are asking for soooo much more.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Paul L

You will not learn how a large boat sails or deals with seas from a seatrial. It will be done on a mostly protected piece of water with easy reach sailing if there is any wind. No one goes out on a for-sale seatrial in man-against-the-seas conditions.

A seatrial lets you know the basic condition of sails, the sounds of the motor and gear while pushing the boat, that all systems are functional, that the steering feels solid. Not much more.

Exactly!

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by StuM

You presented a very one sided account based on your misconceptions and named the brokerage and the individual broker.


From the Rules:
"This forum is not intended to be a mechanism for people to solely vent frustrations about vendors or sales from private parties."

Well put.

[Heath68]

Originally Posted by StuM

I find that very hard to believe since MHS use a trust account and the standard contract (referred to above which the OP apparently didn't bother to look at ) has all of the MHS account details on the last page for a direct bank to bank transfer.

Believe what you like but unlike some on this forum I do not lie or make things up. I had told the broker I would be unable to do a bank transfer using my laptop as I hadn't brought the debit card reader thingy with me on holiday (who does?) He then suggested I place it on my card directly.

[Heath68]

Originally Posted by Paul L

You've now heard from a dozen or so posters that your interpretation on how a yacht should be sold is wrong. I'd guess between them they've probably bought or sold over a hundred boats. It seems you do not really want to learn from this brief exposure and get on with purchasing a boat.

You will not learn how a large boat sails or deals with seas from a seatrial. It will be done on a mostly protected piece of water with easy reach sailing if there is any wind. No one goes out on a for-sale seatrial in man-against-the-seas conditions.

A seatrial lets you know the basic condition of sails, the sounds of the motor and gear while pushing the boat, that all systems are functional, that the steering feels solid. Not much more.

Since you don't feel you have the experience to evaluate this boat, why not get someone involved who does that you trust. Also, you could post a thread here on CF asking for experience on this boat or one that is similar.

Good idea. I know I know little about boats, I know less about buying them as I've never bought one.
My original plan was to look round one and if the seller was willing to, maybe he'd take me out.. I can see now the take me out was highly unrealistic.

But what came back was 'sign and spend before you can see'.. and I found that, particularly whilst I was away on vacation at the time, to be a little unhelpful. (I knew nothing about the content of the sales contract, nor had anyone I could easily ask to check it for me, I had limited availability to funds and had no idea how safe my no doubt sizable deposit would be if I didn't go through with the purchase, I also had no idea if there were any "hidden" costs to my viewing.. it all seemed very formal for what was a look around a boat).

That all said I've learnt my lesson.

Thanks & regards

Heath

[tp12]

Originally Posted by StuM

You presented a very one sided account based on your misconceptions and named the brokerage and the individual broker.


From the Rules:
"This forum is not intended to be a mechanism for people to solely vent frustrations about vendors or sales from private parties."

That's not what he's done at all. Your view here appears to be clouded by your relationship to Kelvin.

To the OP, there's plenty of ways the broker could have handled this better. He's decided you're a timewaster without attempting to properly qualify you. He doesn't deserve your business.

[LeeV]

We've been searching over a year, and while at first the process seemed a bit backwards, I began to see a pattern of boat listings appearing and within a day or two (in some cases) they'd say, "Offer Pending."


With all the storms, insurance checks, etc..., the used market is pretty bare.


I learned that with a good broker (which we had), a good purchase agreement with the "purchase pending visual inspection, survey and sea trial...and 'buyer can walk for any reason thereafter' clause I could make an offer before physically seeing the boat based on photos, reports, videos, etc... and be protected.


We went through that process twice and lost no money because after the visual inspection we cancelled the surveys; the boats were not what we'd been told. We also visited 3 other boats during that process and walked away.



Oddly enough, somebody heard what we were searching for and reached out to us. We have a survey next Monday.


Take your time, read the fine print and go slowly.


Good luck!

[stargate]

Just for info, I recently sold my boat (65ft ketch)in Mexico, to a fellow from the UK. He wanted to put down a refundable security deposit of $10K. I said no . I told him to fly out to see the boat, I would give him a tour. flying out meant he was serious. If he wanted to go further, haul out , sea trails, survey, etc, I would want a non- refundable deposit of $1K in cash up front to proceed. This was so I did not waste my time and not get paid if he backed out for any reason. He agreed , came out and bought the boat. He put a 10% deposit immediately and completed within the contract time. All went well, but took a month.
You cannot expect more than a simple viewing for free and especially not a sea trial. I did offer a sea trail at charter rates if he had of wished.

Hope this helps . By the way ...... no broker.

[Dsanduril]

We had a similar experience to the OP. We were in the US, boat was in NZ. Only had a few days between Christmas and the New Year. Both spoke to and e-mailed the broker in Australia. And the response we got, over and over, was that we couldn't see the boat unless we put down a deposit and signed a contract, despite the fact that we would be flying 12+ hours each way just to see the boat. To me that's a significant enough investment to show genuine interest.

Long story short, somehow (not from us) the seller got the information that there was a potential buyer willing to travel half-way around the world but that they wouldn't sign a contract without having seen the boat. Despite their broker the seller thought that was a significant indication of real interest and the seller gave the broker what for and had us invited down. Even agreed to an afternoon sail without us asking given that they knew we had come so far.

My experience with the broker was just about identical to that of the OP and left an unpleasant taste, but in the end, because of the seller, they got their commission and the sale.

[01kiwijohn]

Only one word for this broker.."Next..". Don't fall for high pressure sales tactic. You've got the dough, you decide what conditions are acceptable.
Looks to me as though you are not convinced that this is the lifestyle you really want. Lots of research;have we reached 'Paralysis by Analysis' here? Suggest you be a little more willing to compromise. Set a departure date, then do what it takes to meet that deadline. (This approach worked for me)
I have a question for you; Why, if you have national health insurance, in the UK, would you be seeking medical treatment in Thailand?

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by Ibetitsthisway

That is just another reason, why I would NEVER NEVER EVER buy from a broker. I just cant stand 95% of them and their behavior and attitude.

By the way - tomorrow we travel 1200km to visit a boat on the hard toghether with the owner and his wife.



Thats how I like buying boats. And thats how it is done. or it it not done at all.
But brokers wont change behavior as long as they find anough foolish customers.

Very interesting approach. I like it. However, it's a challenge. I bought my first boat, quite a project boat, for a project price. Sold by owner, found on Craigslist. Quite satisfying -- and it fit my objectives.


Just bought my second boat in July after over 2 years of searching. This time, the standards were a lot higher, and the budget higher too. We scoured Yachtworld (brokers only, of course), users forums, alternative "by owner" sites, generalized internet searches, the works. We bought from a broker. Why? There are VERY VERY FEW turn-key boats in the 40+foot range that are "by owner." And even harder to find them. We weren't even looking for high end boats -- this is a 20 year old Saga 43 -- nice enough, but not an Amel 50 or a Hinkley. I've been actively trying to sell that first boat (massively upgraded, no longer a project -- but still not an expensive boat) and have had only a very small number of contacts and no sale. We did make one offer on a "by owner" that fell apart at survey, but that was the one and only non-broker boat we even discussed.



So, while avoiding the broker is an ideal goal, it is exceptionally hard to do, and limits your selection to a trifling small number of boats (and for a seller, limits your buyer pool to an equally small number). How in the world did you even FIND a boat 1200km way to go look at? What forum was it listed in? What tips do you have for someone seeking a similar opportunity? One off "friend of a friend told me about a boat" doesn't count because it isn't repeatable.

[aboatman]

OP seems to have an alternative for every situation. First of all he is expecting the broker to work around all of his issues (ie. travelling, time factor, ect). The vessel is for sale from current location so the fact he has to travel is of no concern to the broker or seller. #2, without a deposit, it's a conversation and boat ride. If he is serious, then put up the deposit. ( Basic contract law, consideration by both parties).#3 I would be highly suspect if someone told me that this was the only boat in the whole world I was interested in. #4 If one doesn't have the time to be involved in the purchase then will they have the time to use the boat? As a broker, I get many emails from folks wanting to proceed in OP's manner:high probability they are scams. For the 1 out of 1000's that aren't, there are ways professionals have figured out how to deal with them. I have sold multiple boats, sight unseen overseas and I yet have had a complaint for one of these buyers.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Heath68

Believe what you like but unlike some on this forum I do not lie or make things up. I had told the broker I would be unable to do a bank transfer using my laptop as I hadn't brought the debit card reader thingy with me on holiday (who does?) He then suggested I place it on my card directly.

Once again, until pressed on it, you left out critical details in your previous posts thereby making the broker look bad.


He was obviously trying to help after you said you couldn't follow the standard procedure of making a bank transfer.

[Kit_L]

When I first approached the broker who eventually sold us Seabiscuit, my initial email convinced him that I was a scammer (he told me he had received four similar emails that week!). And at the time when I emailed him, I was overseas teaching in London. The upshot was he replied to my first email in a frankly abusive way (made me laugh) insisting that I was a scammer. Moi? I had even included my website (and linked to the schedule there that described the details of the workshop I was presenting). I thought this suggested that I was genuinely interested, but that's not the impression my email gave him. Allegedly, email scammers are always overseas, and always insist on a number of conditions before a sale can proceed. Who knew?

I asked my brother, a well-known scientist here, to call this broker on my behalf and insist that, in fact, I wasn't a scammer.

When my partner and I returned to Australia, we had to drive North 1,200km to see Seabiscuit and only when we pulled in (with diesel mechanic friend in the car with us) did the broker accept that I was possibly really interested. We laughed about this later, but apparently, this broker gets emails all the time from people who sound like me. Once we'd met, no problem at all, although we did have to drive the 1,200km twice, though the intervention of a cyclone that forced us to abandon the first delivery.

For me, the take-home is simple: call brokers, don't email them. I honestly do not know how brokers can be scammed by overseas buyers—can a broker here add details?

[sdj]

Originally Posted by Heath68

Where am i going wrong?? #frustrating

Stop explaining and begging. You're only filtering for abusers doing that, and also devaluing yourself in front of worthwhile people.

Put out inquiries and move on. If they come back to you, it's worth it - anything else aint worth sh1t.