No Tax Residence, banks and brokerages

[bdgWesternMass]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

But as long as you work for income or own real estate in that country, you do not qualify.

My plan is to disappear into the LLC that own's an apartment building. US citizen a lot to complain about not many good alternatives. I figure if all I have in my name is passport and drivers license I'll be pretty happy.

I have been reducing the number of commercial entities that actual know my name and figure in about 5 years most corporations will forget about me.

I'm just trying to stateless in the corporate sense.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by bdgWesternMass

My plan is to disappear into the LLC that own's an apartment building. US citizen a lot to complain about not many good alternatives. I figure if all I have in my name is passport and drivers license I'll be pretty happy.

I have been reducing the number of commercial entities that actual know my name and figure in about 5 years most corporations will forget about me.

I'm just trying to stateless in the corporate sense.

Yeah, hiding behind an LLC may attract a lot of attention. We simply retired and made sure not to have income from work and sold all real estate, leaving nothing when we filed for emigration.

[bdgWesternMass]

I'm not trying to avoid taxes, I'm trying to avoid corporations knowing who exactly I am.

The whole retirement process which I'm currently starting to focus on is completely insane. I want to do it completely legitimately I just don't want lots of banks and credit cards knowing who I am. I only have one credit card and a bunch of debit cards associated with accounts. The LLC will just be face of commercial identity. I have always joined internet groups but I have no social media access beyond forums like this.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by bdgWesternMass

I'm not trying to avoid taxes, I'm trying to avoid corporations knowing who exactly I am.

Can you expand a bit upon why you fear "corporations knowing who exactly" you are?

Besides living the more or less typical North American lifestyle, I also spent more than a decade working with/for major marketing and advertising firms, whose clients are the major corporations. From this I learned that they mostly just want to sell you their stuff; they don't want to control your life.

And so they already pretty much know about you already.

The people you DO need to worry about are the political operators who do want to exploit your data to control your thinking (eg Steve Bannon & Cambridge Analytica). Hiding in an LLC doesn't shelter anyone from that.

[bdgWesternMass]

I don't actually fear them. I sulk in what I see passes for normal business these days.

I'm sure the corporations could care less about me. I'm sure it's a reaction to the "attention economy".

If I searched down deep to try to find the nugget of my fear it is probably rooted generationally. What became my family fled a world wear public records were used to track down and kill you. Influenced by my own American experience working in pre-internet technology. Long ago it became obvious to me that the more one's identity appears in a database the more likely an algorithm will decide you are the only logical suspect in a crime.

One should be cautious reading too much into how typical my lifestyle maybe.
I often talk to people who imagine all the normal commerce activities I participate with. The often like to tell me that it's all pointless and that corporation already know all about me. The are wrong.

The fear aspect only reinforces and amplifies the annoyance I experience with the attention economy.

It sad that Junk Mail, robo-callls, and spam are such economic drivers that in my view it distorts modern life into a hells cape of distraction.

I'm sure amazon prime is awesome from a certain point of view but it totally sucks from other standpoints. The end result is that we might get to travel to space like it some sort of roller coaster.

Please count me out I'm not trying to convince anybody of anything. I'm just trying to live my life.

Sorry for the rant I'm sure I'm the crazy one.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by bdgWesternMass

Please count me out I'm not trying to convince anybody of anything. I'm just trying to live my life.

Sorry for the rant I'm sure I'm the crazy one.

No worries. Just saying that from my point of view, the effort to "disappear" as a consumer by burrowing into an LLC won't materially improve one's life or safety. If you can see this, you might save yourself some hassle.

I take comfort from the following:

• there's safety in numbers; our economic habits are typical enough that there's nothing that would make me or my family stand out in a group of our peers
• there's more stupidity than evil out there
• targeted ads, robocalls and spam are annoying, but they won't kill me. It's easy enough to block many, and ignore the rest.

I've already identified what would alarm me; but since this sort of voter manipulation has already been embraced by several major political parties worldwide, the only current options are to duck and avoid the noise, or vote them out. Right now, duck and avoid seems the most possible.

[bdgWesternMass]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

No worries. Just saying that from my point of view, the effort to "disappear" as a consumer by burrowing into an LLC won't materially improve one's life or safety. If you can see this, you might save yourself some hassle.

This is what is frustrating about many topics. I share my reasoning. You don't agree so the way I'm doing is the hassle way and you are doing it the hassle free way.

Everyday we both make decisions. I try my best to base my decision on my values and you base your decisions on your values.

In your eyes my way is a hassle and your way is hassle free. They are both hassles. I don't understand why anyone has to perform paperwork but we do.

Finally the LLC was formed for liability reasons for an apartment building. Since the LLC is a going entity that can pay bills and let the accountant sort it out I use that for purchasing.

I don't see any hassle beyond what I was already facing and I maintain my values.

I hope you can see how one can see and discount the judgement built into your comment.

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

I take comfort from the following:

• there's safety in numbers; our economic habits are typical enough that there's nothing that would make me or my family stand out in a group of our peers
  
  
  

• Not sure what history book or current events you used to conjure that logic...
  
  Plenty of examples of mass destruction of cultures.
  
  

  Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

  there's more stupidity than evil out there
  

  Not sure how that is any comfort
  
  

  Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

  targeted ads, robocalls and spam are annoying, but they won't kill me

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Not directly but I see marketing economy as a make work project that uses immense resources that in healthier world could be put to good use.

I don't want to participate in that economy. I don't want to give any more encouragement then it already enjoys.

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

I've already identified what would alarm me; but since this sort of voter manipulation has already been embraced by several major political parties worldwide, the only current options are to duck and avoid the noise, or vote them out. Right now, duck and avoid seems the most possible.

I whole heartedly will Vote for democracy in all our elections. I always believe that things will improve and I live the lifestyle that I can face myself that is my contribution.

[jordanbigel]

Originally Posted by bdgWesternMass

Not directly but I see marketing economy as a make work project that uses immense resources that in healthier world could be put to good use.

I don't want to participate in that economy. I don't want to give any more encouragement then it already enjoys.

I actually agree with your supposition that the "marketing economy" is a waste of resources. I feel the same way about the Sports economy. Bloody waste of time and resources.

But, I just don't see how you bowing out of the marketing scene is going to make the tiniest bit of difference - they will proceed without your encouragement or participation, and it does sound to me like you are contemplating a bit of "hassle" (extra work) to achieve that goal. But, if it makes you happy(er), then go for it. I also am curious how it turns out.

Sorry to be another voice of disagreement. Please ignore me, I am used to it.

[bdgWesternMass]

Originally Posted by jordanbigel

I actually agree with your supposition that the "marketing economy" is a waste of resources. I feel the same way about the Sports economy. Bloody waste of time and resources.

But, I just don't see how you bowing out of the marketing scene is going to make the tiniest bit of difference - they will proceed without your encouragement or participation, and it does sound to me like you are contemplating a bit of "hassle" (extra work) to achieve that goal.

I agree that the attention economy will not notice my lack of participation. That is part of what it makes it so much fun

I already bump into situations where the people on the other side are mystified at what they are seeing. I admit this self indulgent.

My lack of participation has a tremendous impact and is very noticeable to me
That has to count for something.

The only reason I commented is that OP seemed to be searching for alternative lifestyles.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by bdgWesternMass

. . . The only reason I commented is that OP seemed to be searching for alternative lifestyles.

Just remember that if you are a U.S. citizen, the long arms of IRS and FinCen reach you wherever your residence is. You cannot just "disappear into an LLC" or into any kind of foreign company, without committing tax fraud.

There is a case going up to the Supreme Court soon about a Romanian guy, naturalized U.S. citizen, who moved back to Romania, paid all his taxes, absolutely no tax evasion in either country, but accidentally didn't file some FFBARs -- confirmed by the IRS to be "non-willful". Just information forms, no tax due, no fraud, no tax avoidance, no concealment of anything, nothing. They fined him $2.7 million. See: https://www.thetaxadviser.com/news/2...y-dispute.html

You will have to file reams of forms, detailed financial statements (translated into U.S. GAAP at great expense) on every foreign company you own shares in, forms on all your foreign bank accounts and financial accounts, and you will pay tax on the undistributed earnings of certain foreign companies you earn shares of. And inadvertent mistakes in some of these filings can earn you fines of millions.

It's very hard to be a U.S. citizen expat -- you have no choice but to have excellent tax advisers watching your every move and checking everything, and this is $$$.

You can reduce your taxes compared to living in the U.S. by taking the FEIE and not being resident anywhere, but there are plenty of "gotchas" there too, including many countries willing to grab you as a tax resident even if you live less than half a year every year there, if you have a "center of economic interest", "permanent establishment", or all kinds of other stuff.

What you can do about this depends on what kind of money we're talking about. If you have at least a couple of million, then the best thing to do is to expatriate (burn your U.S. passport), get citizenship somewhere like Antigua (few months and a $200,000 investment into certain local real estate), then get a residence permit in some nice European country (Portugal, Estonia, something like that), then register and pay taxes there honestly. After a few years, you can apply for citizenship in that country.

Then you are totally legal and can sleep at night, and it's not moon mission level complexity to stay in compliance.

Estonia is fantastic for this because capital gains taxes are only 20%, and you pay 0% capital gains until you take the money out of your investment account for consumption. You can earn profits, buy and sell real estate or shares, reinvestment the profits, till the cows come home and pay zero tax until you put the money into your personal account for consumption, and then you pay only 20%. Nice real estate for little money, zero property taxes, almost zero crime, most digital society in the world, and the capital city, Tallinn, is the most beautiful city in Northern Europe. Fantastic sailing in the Baltic. The Estonian tax return is like two pages long. Flat tax and almost no deductions. Considered the best tax system in the world.

Other people really like Portugal, but I'm less familiar with the tax system there, but think it must be good.

Denmark is the place to be if you are living on salary rather than capital gains. There is a program where you pay a flat tax of like 27% including all social taxes for 8 years, on salary income. Then you have access to all their free health care, free education through PhD at great schools and universities, etc. You can apply for citizenship in 5 years.

Germany is also good if you're living on capital income. Capital gains tax is 0%. Income tax is high. Cost of living is very low compared to the U.S.

But the American passport is a heavy, heavy burden if you are an entrepreneur, have businesses, business accounts, etc., and a terrible risk in case you screw up any of the fantastically complex reporting requirements.

[nwdiver]

Originally Posted by NaClyDog

Being a tax resident and resident (for passport purposes) are completely different things.

Residents cannot get a passport, only citizens can get passport, some passports have residency requirements attached to them some do not.

[bdgWesternMass]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Just remember that if you are a U.S. citizen, the long arms of IRS and FinCen reach you wherever your residence is. You cannot just "disappear into an LLC" or into any kind of foreign company, without committing tax fraud.

I have no idea why you replied to me. I never once advocated for hiding from IRS or taxes.

I specifically said the opposite.

Yet you choose to respond to me with long diatribe not addressing anything I said.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Naughty Cat

You could buy citizenship of St Kitts and Nevis, or some other similar place. Last I looked it was reasonably priced and alleviates your problem for life.

I believe they have been cracking down on these citizenships for fee deals...especially since the Russian attack on Ukraine.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by bdgWesternMass

My plan is to disappear into the LLC that own's an apartment building.

It's really easy to pierce a "corporate veil", so not sure how you "disappear".

If it makes you feel good to go thru the hassle, as long as you pay your taxes and don't otherwise break the law, go for it but you really aren't hiding anything if you stay legal.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by bdgWesternMass

I have no idea why you replied to me. I never once advocated for hiding from IRS or taxes.

I specifically said the opposite.

Yet you choose to respond to me with long diatribe not addressing anything I said.

Not addressed to you at all. Addressed to the many people who think about hiding money in legal entities, unaware of how deeply the IRS penetrates this, hoping to convey some information which might be helpful to someone.