Is 1800 euros reasonable for a survey of a 53foot sailboat?

[Jim Cate]

Jim if you can write a 12 page document in less than hour maybe I should be employing you to do my paper work. Even cutting and pasting and adding photos takes time. With my template I take around 2-3 hours to write up the average survey. The more faults I find the longer it takes to write.

Fair enough... you have the experience and I don't, so I'll retract the one hour estimate! But still, even if it takes 3 hours to complete the report, and you add those hours to the one working day for the physical survey that was quoted, 1800 euros is a rather high hourly wage when compared to that charged by other practitioners.

Again, a really good survey is a wonderful tool for a buyer. I've not had such a survey realized on any transaction I've been involved with as yet, either as buyer or seller. The products that I have seen were superficial in most respects, inaccurate in many and, IMO, pretty non-professional. I have seen second hand reports that seemed very complete and detailed, but I was not familiar with the boats involved and so could not judge their accuracy.

I imagine that it is a kinda stressful occupation, being a surveyor... lots of responsibilities, time pressure for completion, anxious sellers and buyers, everpresent threat of liabilities after the fact and so on. I do admire the surveyors who offer truly professional services.

Jim

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

I agree with you Dale, there is some terrible surveyors out there. I heard about one this morning who was looking for the keel bolts on a yacht that had a keel that was part of the hull mold. He asked so many stupid questions the seller just had to keep his mouth shut. That surveyor then started commenting on things he really had no idea about.
Jim if you can write a 12 page document in less than hour maybe I should be employing you to do my paper work. Even cutting and pasting and adding photos takes time. With my template I take around 2-3 hours to write up the average survey. The more faults I find the longer it takes to write.
Cheers

As you must be aware, The largest part of the survey document was written long ago and is boilerplate. Details are inserted into that.

[rallyman1122]

I happened to be able to talk to a couple that recently had a survey done. I never asked the cost but they told me the Surveyor spent almost 13 hours on the boat. Add in travel time and that makes for a very long day and that may justify some of the costs involved

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

As you must be aware, The largest part of the survey document was written long ago and is boilerplate. Details are inserted into that.

True for some. Not all.

[billknny]

Originally Posted by SYSojourner

Ciao again all, thank you so much for the help the last few days... For my second post, I would ask, is 1800 euros a reasonable price for the 1 day long full survey of a 53 foot Amel Super Maramu sailboat? The company seems reputable, and this is their patter to me:

The full Pre-purchase survey incorporates a sea trial including all manoeuvres and main machinery testing, and an out of the water inspection with percussion testing of the hull, and inspection of the running gear. All systems are tested and assessed, including the cosmetic condition of the interior and exterior finish. We would need 1 full day to complete the survey. The detailed report is sent in PDF format (in English) within 24-48 hours of the survey and all pictures taken during the survey can be downloaded from our website via a private link.

It seems pretty standard to me, but again, this is my first purchase... Any thoughts?

Cheers!

I would really suggest that you make sure you use a surveyor who is VERY familar with AMELs. They are designed and built rather differently from other boats and the chances that someone who is not knowledgeable about them would find potential problems is very near zero.

I have at least on name in France, if that would be any help?

Bill Kinney, Owner Super Maramu #160, Harmonie
http://fetchinketch.net

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by billknny

They are designed and built rather differently from other boats and the chances that someone who is not knowledgeable about them would find potential problems is very near zero.

I have at least on name in France, if that would be any help?

Bill Kinney, Owner Super Maramu #160, Harmonie
http://fetchinketch.net

Don't know that I've even seen an Amel let alone surveyed one but your post made me curious enough to poke around on line and I can't find anything on line that suggests anything other than conventional construction.
What am I missing ?

[model 10]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Don't know that I've even seen an Amel let alone surveyed one but your post made me curious enough to poke around on line and I can't find anything on line that suggests anything other than conventional construction.
What am I missing ?

There are 3 or 4 on the Rio Dulce in Guatemala. The owners seem very enthusiastic about them. One model is even called the "Mango". Somehow they get work done to them by the locals just like any other boat.

[billknny]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Don't know that I've even seen an Amel let alone surveyed one but your post made me curious enough to poke around on line and I can't find anything on line that suggests anything other than conventional construction.
What am I missing ?

A couple examples:

Amel's have a "floating negative" DC electrical system. Something usually only seen on metal hulled boats. If not maintained properly, or altered without good knowledge, it can result in severe and rapid corrosion. Same can happen on conventional "grounded" electrical systems, but in different ways.

On a Super Maramu there are a number of mechanical systems that are unique to Amel, for example, the retracting bow thruster, and the "C-drive" instead of a propshaft. The electrical system is also laid out in an unconventional way on all but the newest of the Amels. Hard to know what to look for if you have never seen one like it. I'd bet you a case of beer (brand of your choice) you couldn't find every circuit breaker on my boat.

The boat is also built with several watertight bulkheads. People ignorant of this can put holes where they destroy the watertight integrity and a surveyor who did not appreciate this would not flag it.

Hull construction is a bit different. A Super Maramu has 3 or maybe just 1 underwater through hulls, depending on date of construction. I wouldn't want a surveyor learning how that plumbing works on my dime.

Would a random surveyor know where to find the lockdown screws for the watertight doors? Or report if they were broken, or missing?

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by billknny

A couple examples:

Amel's have a "floating negative" DC electrical system. Something usually only seen on metal hulled boats. If not maintained properly, or altered without good knowledge, it can result in severe and rapid corrosion. Same can happen on conventional "grounded" electrical systems, but in different ways.

On a Super Maramu there are a number of mechanical systems that are unique to Amel, for example, the retracting bow thruster, and the "C-drive" instead of a propshaft. The electrical system is also laid out in an unconventional way on all but the newest of the Amels. Hard to know what to look for if you have never seen one like it. I'd bet you a case of beer (brand of your choice) you couldn't find every circuit breaker on my boat.

The boat is also built with several watertight bulkheads. People ignorant of this can put holes where they destroy the watertight integrity and a surveyor who did not appreciate this would not flag it.

Hull construction is a bit different. A Super Maramu has 3 or maybe just 1 underwater through hulls, depending on date of construction. I wouldn't want a surveyor learning how that plumbing works on my dime.

Would a random surveyor know where to find the lockdown screws for the watertight doors? Or report if they were broken, or missing?

Sounds like pretty strasight forward to me except that having circuit breakers all over the place instead of one panel does not sound too smart to me.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by billknny

I wouldn't want a surveyor learning how that plumbing works on my dime.

I do that on every survey. I think what you describe would be a lot easier than figuring out the 22 seacocks on a Jeanneau 54

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by billknny

I would really suggest that you make sure you use a surveyor who is VERY familar with AMELs. They are designed and built rather differently from other boats and the chances that someone who is not knowledgeable about them would find potential problems is very near zero.



I have at least on name in France, if that would be any help?



Bill Kinney, Owner Super Maramu #160, Harmonie

http://fetchinketch.net

An Amel is a collection of parts encased in a shell.....like any other boat....what’s so special?

[billknny]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

An Amel is a collection of parts encased in a shell.....like any other boat....what’s so special?

It's a boat, and surveying the hull is a piece of cake.

But, just for an example, you have to know where to look to know if the bow thruster has been maintained properly. No, it is NOT rocket science. but if the thruster system has not been regularly disassembled and lubricated, fixing it is a nightmare. If you know Amel's you know right where to look.

How would you know (without tracing every single wire) it had an isolated negative and you needed to check for ground leaks into the bonding system?

I know someone who bought one and the surveyor missed the fact that the replaced generator was not installed with an isolated ground. Would have been right on any other boat, but on an Amel it created a serious ground fault.

It's like any boat. A surveyor who says he know everything about every boat, he's NOT the one to hire.

[TheThunderbird]

I had this clause in my pre-purchase conditions. (Not paying for hauling if boat is refused upon material evidence)

The assumption is that you go for it, unless material evidence is found out.

On the same basis, why should anyone be willing to toss over 2000$ for inspecting someone else 's boat???
I studied logic too, both in math, physics, and philosophy

[TheThunderbird]

If l were serious at selling a 50+footer, l would invest in a 15page technical report on my boat, in order to substantiate claims for efficiency, readiness and preparedness.

That would pay back by the multiple...

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by billknny

But, just for an example, you have to know where to look to know if the bow thruster has been maintained properly. No, it is NOT rocket science.


How would you know (without tracing every single wire) it had an isolated negative and you needed to check for ground leaks into the bonding system?

1. Agreed, a bow thruster is not rocket science.

2. How about a multimeter (similar to the three I carry).