Is 1800 euros reasonable for a survey of a 53foot sailboat?

[Bruce S]

I recently had my 2015 FP Lipari 41 surveyed in France for Euro 900. He initially wanted Euro 1320 (including 20% VAT) for the full day survey, test sail and written English report which I thought a bit expensive. We ended up settling on Euro 900 for the full survey and test sail but only with a verbal report and written list of things that needed attention/fixing, i.e. no written report. He would have provided a written English report for an extra Euro 250 but I did not need one and just went for the verbal report and written to do list. My advice, negotiate! There is no such a thing as a fixed price.

[SkipMark]

I had a full condition survey of 40 foot Moody, inspected afloat and on the hard, plus a brief sea trial.This was 2010 in Marmaris, Turkey. They calculated the fee as follows:

Loa (12m) 39 feet x Beam (13 feet) = 507 € + 120 € (for the 12 years of the age.)

So the price you've been quoted seems reasonable, considering inflation and economic region. Also, I learned a lot about the boat just following the surveyor around and watching and asking questions. That alone was worth a lot!

[Cheechako]

If it includes all yard fees maybe,otherwise it certainly wouldnt be reasonable on this side of the pond.

[Juho]

I was very happy with a 300€ survey. Couple of hours, lots of informative discussions, no paperwork.

[fatherchronica]

At that price I would hope the health of the engine and electronics, batteries and the rig are all professionally inspected. Those things are usually just pretty much listed as working or not in the US.

[Mike Banks]

Then cost of a survey and the value of a good survey are not the same thing at all. I bought a vessel subject tio a survey--it sailed through with everything OK--and later I discovered that I would have been better to have done it myself instead of getting the survey thing for the insurance.

The guy missed every serious fault in the vessel--and the fee which was normal at the time was just wasted money for a service not properlyu provided.

I would have preferred to spend four times as much--if it meant not buying the vessel--because it cost a hell of a lot more than that to fix the bits blind freddy should have seen--let alone a person equipped with ultrasound gear and the knowledge of where to look.

Collusion with a broker? Almost certainly so.

[Fore and Aft]

Here in Australia I charge $20 a foot for a survey without a sea trial. I do not inspect the rig or engine as I am not a professional in those fields. I do have a look at the rig and engine and report on faults I see. But you are better to pay an expert to examine them. I am just one of those guys who switches everything on and off does a few taps with his hammer then steals your money! LOL.
I think $1800 is reasonable, he could save you thousands compared to a cheaper guy who might miss some issues.
If you are bitching about costs when buying a 53 foot yacht, maybe you should be looking at a smaller yacht?
Cheers
Drew

[Jim Cate]

So, in France, what does a skilled motor mechanic earn per day? How about other skilled tradesmen? How about a sailmaker? These are jobs that require some years of training and or experience. I doubt if it comes to 1800 euros per day. Yacht surveying is not inherently more demanding than such trades IMO. And typing up the report? With the sort of boiler plate one sees on most such reports it shouldn't take ore than an hour or so at most.

Sure, a really good survey can save far more than it costs, but that's not how most compensation schemes are worked out. To me, the quoted fee is very high... but I don't know about the local economy, and could be way off base. Hence the questions about other trades.

Jim

PS The detailed description of the survey includes time on the hard, a launching and a sea trial, all to be accomplished in a single working day. Quite honestly, that sounds like much of the inspection might be pretty superficial, for it is a hell of a lot of ground for one chap to cover in a day, especially if any delays in launching are involved.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

Here in Australia I charge $20 a foot for a survey without a sea trial. I do not inspect the rig or engine as I am not a professional in those fields. I do have a look at the rig and engine and report on faults I see. But you are better to pay an expert to examine them. I am just one of those guys who switches everything on and off does a few taps with his hammer then steals your money! LOL.
I think $1800 is reasonable, he could save you thousands compared to a cheaper guy who might miss some issues.
If you are bitching about costs when buying a 53 foot yacht, maybe you should be looking at a smaller yacht?
Cheers
Drew

Hi Drew, you maybe a great surveyor so don't take this personally.

My experience with surveyors in Australia has been terrible.

I payed the last guy approx $1000aud and in all honesty he was pathetic.

It was difficult for me not to be angry with him. Giving me anchoring advise (I've slept on the hook thousands of nights), anti foul application advise and a safety regulation education BUT was to fat and lazy to get in to the back locker and check out steering cables, and rudder set up etc. This guy would have no idea if the boat was structurally sound or not! Verging on fraud imo.

That's the second bad experience I've had. Will not use a surveyor again unless an insurance company makes me, I don't believe either I've used knew more than me and they cost me money, certainly did not save me money.

[boatpoker]

Ask for a copy of the survey report of the last Amel they surveyed with I.D.'s blanked out. If they won't give you that ...... move on.

I provide sample survey reports on my website and certainly would not hire a surveyor that would not show his work.

[Sparkes]

I had Olivier Beaute of Atlantic Yacht Survey (based in Rochelle) survey my 1989 Amel Maramu when I was in the process of purchasing it three years ago.
Olivier originally was After Sales Service Manager? for Amel, and was very familiar with the boat and her systems.
I was very pleased with his survey, not only for the attention to detail, but also for the 'tips and tricks' that he showed me (not having any experience of Amels)
The report ran to 17 pages including photographs. The boat was in Portugal, so the cost flights and accomodation took the survey cost beyond what you've been quoted, but in all it seemed reasonable.
At the time, I was hoping for a very critical analysis of the boat, so that I could bargain hard, but he proudly showed me the clever qualities of the systems and manual backups. (He almost seemed like a salesman for the boat).
His survey report and the detail that he included helped me get faults identified, and fixed by the owner, and I did get that good price.

After three years of enjoyable sailing, I value not only what Olivier found during the survey, but even more so, the tips and tricks.

I highly recommend him.
Atlantic Yacht Survey | Votre expert : Olivier BEAUTE atlanticyachtsurvey@yahoo.com Mob: +33 674 028 243 site is in French, but his english is excellent.

Good luck with the process. Clay

[Fore and Aft]

I agree with you Dale, there is some terrible surveyors out there. I heard about one this morning who was looking for the keel bolts on a yacht that had a keel that was part of the hull mold. He asked so many stupid questions the seller just had to keep his mouth shut. That surveyor then started commenting on things he really had no idea about.
Jim if you can write a 12 page document in less than hour maybe I should be employing you to do my paper work. Even cutting and pasting and adding photos takes time. With my template I take around 2-3 hours to write up the average survey. The more faults I find the longer it takes to write.
Cheers

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

I agree with you Dale, there is some terrible surveyors out there. I heard about one this morning who was looking for the keel bolts on a yacht that had a keel that was part of the hull mold. He asked so many stupid questions the seller just had to keep his mouth shut. That surveyor then started commenting on things he really had no idea about.
Jim if you can write a 12 page document in less than hour maybe I should be employing you to do my paper work. Even cutting and pasting and adding photos takes time. With my template I take around 2-3 hours to write up the average survey. The more faults I find the longer it takes to write.
Cheers

Hi Fore and Aft, another example that has helped shape my views happened up your way, Bundaberg.

I purchased a Top hat 25 approx ten years ago. A local surveyor had a look at her for me. Anyway I'd paided the money and never got the report! I called a number of times even went to his house, I just got ignored, report never appeared.

Anyway, a year or so later I dropped into the marina on the way up the coast and I see him walking along with a client. I politely, but without taking a backwards step called him on it in front of his customer, he squirmed and lied, I pulled out emails there and then on my phone as proof of his ignorance and arrogance.

To his credit he returned my money, not that this makes up for his lack of professionalism.

Like I said, I'm sure there's good surveyors, I just haven't employed one.

[TheThunderbird]

LOT of good advice here.

Find your Independent surveyor, knowledgeable with Amels
Ask for a rigger, a mechanician, and a hull expert , and ELECTRICIAN (battery, electronics, breakers, fuses, wiring....)

Sea trial will tell you little, but have all water intakes and engines running (in harbour too). Then, Wait 1full week in the dry. Not 2days

Ask for a 10page report, have a former one too, if Amel's better

In doubt, ask for a Pantaenius rigger expert.

Must be given a detailed list of TO DO things with $amounts, to be played against purchase cost
Hauling is paid by you only IF you finalize the purchase.

That ALL is worth 1800, about cosmetics, anyone can see it :-)

this is a 200+k buy with expected refit costs of several tens of thousands...

I don't like "surveyors", l prefer the real experts on the field
And be aware of what can be wrong on That model

Mr.ZERBINATI from BRescia-italy is a FASTIDIOUS naval architect and constructor, also doing surveys. No seller wants to see him. Worth your budget

[Fore and Aft]

Good luck trying not to pay for the hauling Thunderbird unless you buy the boat. Why would the owner waste his money slipping the boat for every person that was interested in buying his boat?
Cheers