Boat Ownership Questions

[Traveler2012]

After looking at some woeful second hand boats with high price tags here in Australia we are also considering purchasing a catamaran in the Mediterranean or the US. Were you can buy the same boat with similar inclusions at about half the price? I understand a lot of these boats are straight out of charter, not usually loved or blue water ready.
I don’t know what the tax implications are in the US and Europe when purchasing the boat and then if and when are we required to change it to Australian registration. I know we will have to pay 10% GST plus 5% luxury tax when we do change the registration to make it an Australian registered boat. Can you keep the boat registered in a foreign country? Does it matter where it is registered? What type of visa can you get to while you get the boat ready to go and how long can we stay? How do you find a good surveyor in a foreign country, currency change for the purchase? etc. etc.
There is certainly a lot to consider. Does anyone have any helpful information or know of any websites that might be able to explain the process?
Thanks David_Old_Jersey that helps a bit in regards to the VAT.....

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

Leaving aside the question of whether it makes sense to buy in Europe (IMO only if you want to spend extended time in the EU).......the good news with VAT is that it is not charged on s/h boats (we are not as Socialist as some other countries!) - only charged on new boats.

The bad news is that you won't be able reclaim it back when taking boat to the USA!.......but it is possible to buy s/h boats that have never had VAT paid on them - mostly those will be boats that have been used commercially (ex-charter by Sunsail etc etc) is the usual source.......and which if sold into the private market would involve a new (EU resident) owner paying the VAT on the current boat value......but a foreigner who sails away will not be charged VAT. Obviously a lot less of those boats than those owned by private owners and for which VAT has been (long ago) paid.

BTW, as you may know already - no such thing as "EU VAT" - each country (27 of them?) have own tax authorities and own rates. Rules are pretty much harmonised (and VAT paid in one country counts as paid in all the rest - even though the cash itself is not shared!) and rates getting that way as well - but in some countries the VAT rate is lower than others.

[Traveler2012]

I think I may have found answers to my questions in the "rules and red tape
' section.

[vtsailguy]

This might be useful
The Best Boat for Cruising with Children | Sailing With Kids

The themes are right (imho) even without the Teak-Rat part involved.....

[Traveler2012]

Originally Posted by vtsailguy

This might be useful
The Best Boat for Cruising with Children | Sailing With Kids

The themes are right (imho) even without the Teak-Rat part involved.....

Thanks. We will be traveling with kids as well. Any tips on keeping sane as also welcome .

[vtsailguy]

Really? Most excellent!

If you have two or less, I found the perfect boat for you, a Morgan 38 I talked about in my blog above. We only passed on it because we have three teak-rats and it was too small.

Check the blog post, it was my thoughts after 3 months of searching.

[Traveler2012]

Originally Posted by vtsailguy

Really? Most excellent!

If you have two or less, I found the perfect boat for you, a Morgan 38 I talked about in my blog above. We only passed on it because we have three teak-rats and it was too small.

Check the blog post, it was my thoughts after 3 months of searching.

We would prefer a catamaran but I will look at it. We have 2 kids but one is nearly 16 so it is like 3 adults and 1 kid really.

Good luck with your travels. I will check you blog from time to time.

[SimonV]

Originally Posted by Traveler2012

We would prefer a catamaran but I will look at it. We have 2 kids but one is nearly 16 so it is like 3 adults and 1 kid really.

Good luck with your travels. I will check you blog from time to time.

What is your budget? what are your ultimate plans? What is your boating experience? Have you owned a boat before? Can you speak french or Italian?

[Jimbo485]

Originally Posted by SimonV

Why would you even consider buying anywhere other than the USA, The best deals are on your door step.

Because those best deal boats in the USA are reserved for the Aussies and Kiwis! The OP can go Europe....

[vtsailguy]

Originally Posted by Traveler2012

We would prefer a catamaran but I will look at it. We have 2 kids but one is nearly 16 so it is like 3 adults and 1 kid really.

Good luck with your travels. I will check you blog from time to time.

Ahh, it would be too small for sure.

[Traveler2012]

Originally Posted by SimonV

What is your budget? what are your ultimate plans? What is your boating experience? Have you owned a boat before? Can you speak french or Italian?

We’re not great sailors but we have done quite a few bareboat charters in a 38ft catamaran. Always had smaller boats, 6mtr motor boats, small catamaran and a trailer sailor. The whole family is always on or in the water.

We only know a few words of Italian and French. I was thinking we would study some French and Spanish for our trip? We plan to hang around the east coast of Australian for a bit (Depending on where we purchase our cat of course) and then venture further afield and eventually circumnavigate the globe.

Our boat budget will be dependent on what we get for the sale of our business - it is going on the market now. But probably somewhere in the vicinity of AUD$250,000

[SimonV]

Originally Posted by Traveler2012

We’re not great sailors but we have done quite a few bareboat charters in a 38ft catamaran. Always had smaller boats, 6mtr motor boats, small catamaran and a trailer sailor. The whole family is always on or in the water.

We only know a few words of Italian and French. I was thinking we would study some French and Spanish for our trip? We plan to hang around the east coast of Australian for a bit (Depending on where we purchase our cat of course) and then venture further afield and eventually circumnavigate the globe.

Our boat budget will be dependent on what we get for the sale of our business - it is going on the market now. But probably somewhere in the vicinity of AUD$250,000

The reason I ask is buying in Europe can be quite intimidating unless you have access to someone who speaks the local language. Owning a sailing boat is so much more different to chartering a cat of owning a motor boat. buying a boat is not like buying a car, Things on the boat will not work or are on the way out, so you will need to engage a trusted agent to work for you and they will deal with the broker, diesel Mechanic, rigger and surveyor.
Buying in the USA is relatively easy, they sort of, speak English, are reasonably transparent thanks to their laws and litigation. You can converse with all the tradies directly. Also I found the tradies punctual, if they say 8.10am they are there at 8.10am(not like our woeful, never return your call or later maybe next week some time.) The Caribbean Is a good spot for ex charter Cats. Unless the cat is built in the USA and bought in the USA you will be up for 10%GST + 5% import duty. There is no luxury Tax. If you buy in the USA you will pay no tax to the USA as long as you Put it in AUS Registration ASAP. and get your cruising permit if traveling in the USA.

[Traveler2012]

Originally Posted by SimonV

The reason I ask is buying in Europe can be quite intimidating unless you have access to someone who speaks the local language. Owning a sailing boat is so much more different to chartering a cat of owning a motor boat. buying a boat is not like buying a car, Things on the boat will not work or are on the way out, so you will need to engage a trusted agent to work for you and they will deal with the broker, diesel Mechanic, rigger and surveyor.
Buying in the USA is relatively easy, they sort of, speak English, are reasonably transparent thanks to their laws and litigation. You can converse with all the tradies directly. Also I found the tradies punctual, if they say 8.10am they are there at 8.10am(not like our woeful, never return your call or later maybe next week some time.) The Caribbean Is a good spot for ex charter Cats. Unless the cat is built in the USA and bought in the USA you will be up for 10%GST + 5% import duty. There is no luxury Tax. If you buy in the USA you will pay no tax to the USA as long as you Put it in AUS Registration ASAP. and get your cruising permit if traveling in the USA.

Thanks Simon V. Yes, there is a lot to consider. I would definitely prefer to purchase something in Australia. It would eliminate a lot of extra stress we don’t really need. While we know there is always plenty of initial and continuous work to be done on a boat of that size we probably don’t fully understand the full extent of that until we purchase our own one.

[bgallinger]

Originally Posted by Sazaisan

Hello everyone, I'm new to this forum and to sailing in general. I'm recently retired and plan to buy a boat and live aboard (Florida) about 6 months a year. I have been looking at boats on Yachtworld but have a hundred questions about what I see there. Has anyone out there ever purchased a boat from Europe and moved it to the USA? Does anyone understand how VAT applies to such a transaction? What costs are involved beyond the puchase price? I may want a surveyor to perform an inspection of the boat (or not) and realize there is the expense associated with moving the boat to the US. I notice that all boats from Europe have 220V electrical systems. Is it practical to think that I could convert the electrical system to 110V US standard? These are only a couple of the hundred questions I have. Thanks in advance for your comments/answers.

for the life of me, I cannot understand why you would want to buy a boat in europe then move it to the US!

[hellosailor]

Simon-
In many parts of the US, if your diesel mechanic says he'll be there at 10AM, sometimes he shows up by noon. Or two. Travel lift will be ready at 3PM? Oh, no, come back tomorrow we couldn't make it today and it's closing time.

Sadly, same same all over most of the US and most of the trades. The guys who actually know how to pick up a phone (incredibly difficult when everyone has one in their pocket) and say "I'm running late I won't be there until" are few and far between. And all the more deserving of praise for a job "simply" well done.

We may not all work on Island Time, yet, but things are going that way. People don't show up, don't call in, don't complete the work if they do show up...and this passes for normal these days. (sigh)

[SimonV]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Simon-
In many parts of the US, if your diesel mechanic says he'll be there at 10AM, sometimes he shows up by noon. Or two. Travel lift will be ready at 3PM? Oh, no, come back tomorrow we couldn't make it today and it's closing time.

Sadly, same same all over most of the US and most of the trades. The guys who actually know how to pick up a phone (incredibly difficult when everyone has one in their pocket) and say "I'm running late I won't be there until" are few and far between. And all the more deserving of praise for a job "simply" well done.

We may not all work on Island Time, yet, but things are going that way. People don't show up, don't call in, don't complete the work if they do show up...and this passes for normal these days. (sigh)

I can only give my experience in the San Francisco area, I could not fault anyone. If they are getting as bad as you say, then you are still head and sholders in front of ours. Mind you I am hauled out at the moment the Thursday before Easter Friday and found my cutlass bearing is shot. The local engineering shop cant do it to day, but will be at the yard Tuesday Morning to sort it.So I can't complain....yet.