Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 16-03-2013, 12:13   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Minneapolis
Boat: None
Posts: 9
Send a message via Yahoo to Sazaisan
Boat Ownership Questions

Hello everyone, I'm new to this forum and to sailing in general. I'm recently retired and plan to buy a boat and live aboard (Florida) about 6 months a year. I have been looking at boats on Yachtworld but have a hundred questions about what I see there. Has anyone out there ever purchased a boat from Europe and moved it to the USA? Does anyone understand how VAT applies to such a transaction? What costs are involved beyond the puchase price? I may want a surveyor to perform an inspection of the boat (or not) and realize there is the expense associated with moving the boat to the US. I notice that all boats from Europe have 220V electrical systems. Is it practical to think that I could convert the electrical system to 110V US standard? These are only a couple of the hundred questions I have. Thanks in advance for your comments/answers.
Sazaisan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-03-2013, 20:50   #2
Registered User
 
gabilo's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Mediterranean
Boat: CT-47
Posts: 199
First boat and new to sailing. Why so complicated ..... Buy in US and at least half of your questions will be resolved.
gabilo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2013, 01:05   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Milan-Italy
Boat: Melina Clipper 411, Beneteau
Posts: 25
Images: 1
Send a message via Yahoo to stevern Send a message via Skype™ to stevern
Re: Boat Ownership Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by gabilo View Post
First boat and new to sailing. Why so complicated ..... Buy in US and at least half of your questions will be resolved.
I agree In USA ther'are a huge numberso of boat
available,. a lot of them close interesting nad cheaper. Don't do wrong to yourself!
stevern is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2013, 02:59   #4
Registered User
 
SimonV's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Posts: 1,338
Re: Boat Ownership Questions

Why would you even consider buying anywhere other than the USA, The best deals are on your door step.
__________________
Simon

Bavaria 50 Cruiser
SimonV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2013, 04:35   #5
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,012
Images: 4
Re: Boat Ownership Questions

Leaving aside the question of whether it makes sense to buy in Europe (IMO only if you want to spend extended time in the EU).......the good news with VAT is that it is not charged on s/h boats (we are not as Socialist as some other countries!) - only charged on new boats.

The bad news is that you won't be able reclaim it back when taking boat to the USA!.......but it is possible to buy s/h boats that have never had VAT paid on them - mostly those will be boats that have been used commercially (ex-charter by Sunsail etc etc) is the usual source.......and which if sold into the private market would involve a new (EU resident) owner paying the VAT on the current boat value......but a foreigner who sails away will not be charged VAT. Obviously a lot less of those boats than those owned by private owners and for which VAT has been (long ago) paid.

BTW, as you may know already - no such thing as "EU VAT" - each country (27 of them?) have own tax authorities and own rates. Rules are pretty much harmonised (and VAT paid in one country counts as paid in all the rest - even though the cash itself is not shared!) and rates getting that way as well - but in some countries the VAT rate is lower than others.
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2013, 11:04   #6
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 15,136
Re: Boat Ownership Questions

There is such a glut of used boatrs of all prices and sizes in the US. Apparerntly you don't know that used boats are like used cars, each one is in perfect condition and only used by a little old lady to drive to church on Sunday.

So you'll go to Europe, inspect boats, find out there are problems, spend more time flying around to more boats, more time at the dock paying dock fees while you do your shakedown and repairs before you try an ocean crossing in a new old boat...And then you still have no idea what the boat's title will be or other legal complications.

And you could avoid all that by just looking right here.

Can't see any reason why yo've got Europe in the mix, unless you want to excuse to take a trip. In which case, buy your boat HERE and then SAIL THERE.

Really.
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2013, 11:12   #7
Registered User
 
Kettlewell's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Boat: Finnsailer 38
Posts: 5,137
Re: Boat Ownership Questions

My guess is the OP sees mainly European boats he is interested in. I can understand that, but one thing to keep in mind is that many Northern European craft won't be particularly suited to the hot climate of Florida. You also have to keep in mind that Florida's east coast has many fixed bridges with a maximum clearance of 65 feet, and Florida's West Coast has a clearance of 55 feet. Max draft for comfortable cruising in Florida is about 6 feet, though you will be much happier with 5 feet. Be sure to check out what ownership and other papers you will need in order to register or document it within the USA. The CG has some very specific requirements for foreign registered boats being brought in.
__________________
JJKettlewell
Kettlewell is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2013, 11:35   #8
Marine Service Provider
 
Snore's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Boat: Retired Delivery Capt
Posts: 3,684
Send a message via Skype™ to Snore
There was a Benie for sale in Miami that was a European boat.... They mentioned that the wiring had been converted to US voltages. It would appear that this may be an issue.
__________________
"Whenever...it requires a strong moral principle to prevent me from deliberately stepping into the street, and methodically knocking people's hats off- then, I account it high time to get to sea..." Ishmael
Snore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2013, 18:20   #9
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Lefkas Marina ,Greece
Boat: Bavaria 36
Posts: 22,801
Images: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kettlewell View Post
My guess is the OP sees mainly European boats he is interested in. I can understand that, but one thing to keep in mind is that many Northern European craft won't be particularly suited to the hot climate of Florida. You also have to keep in mind that Florida's east coast has many fixed bridges with a maximum clearance of 65 feet, and Florida's West Coast has a clearance of 55 feet. Max draft for comfortable cruising in Florida is about 6 feet, though you will be much happier with 5 feet. Be sure to check out what ownership and other papers you will need in order to register or document it within the USA. The CG has some very specific requirements for foreign registered boats being brought in.
Well the Med is quite warm in the summer. Rumour has it , and a hell of a lot of Euro boats will fit into the dimensions you mentioned.

if the OP wants to buy a European boat , then obviously looking in Europe will throw up far more opportunities then elsewhere.

Converting a 220vac boat to 110 isnt difficult if you know what you are doing. You can derate the breakers to lower currents and is the existing wiring etc. you'll have to replace the high current AC circuits , like the water heater ( and new elements etc) , fridge may or may not be dual voltage.

If you know nothing about AC , then employ a professional.

That having been said , few boats are purchased in Europe 2nd hand by Americans, There's a reasonable , if small, trade in new boats.

Dave
__________________
Interested in smart boat technology, networking and all things tech
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2013, 18:29   #10
Registered User
 
Teknav's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Texas - USA
Boat: Twin Otter de Havilland Floatplane
Posts: 1,838
Re: Boat Ownership Questions

Alexandria - Egypt is about the same latitude of Jacksonville - FL, if I correctly recall my HS geography; same weather patterns. Mauritz
Teknav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2013, 18:49   #11
Registered User
 
Kettlewell's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Boat: Finnsailer 38
Posts: 5,137
Re: Boat Ownership Questions

I don't think Alexandria counts as "Northern Europe." I'm talking about boats from Scandinavia and the UK, that seem to be popular with folks from North America, but frequently don't have things like big opening hatches and ports, full sun protection for the cockpit, and built-in air conditioning, which a lot of people consider critical in Florida. However, things like teak decks and dark-colored hulls are a no-no in Florida. I was just trying to point out a few critical things that might need to be considered. There are many more.

From Wikipedia:

Quote:
Northern Europe is the northern part or region of the European continent. A United Nations report published in 2011 defines Northern Europe as including the following ten countries and dependent regions: Denmark (with Faroe Islands), Estonia, Finland (with Åland), Iceland, Ireland, Latvia, Lithuania, Norway (Svalbard and Jan Mayen), Sweden, and the UK (with Guernsey, Isle of Man and Jersey).[1]
__________________
JJKettlewell
Kettlewell is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2013, 19:00   #12
Registered User
 
Teknav's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Texas - USA
Boat: Twin Otter de Havilland Floatplane
Posts: 1,838
Re: Boat Ownership Questions

Point taken, Kettle...I was off-course! My apologies! <Pass the Crow Rib-eye...munch...munch...it sure tastes like Angus crow!> Mauritz
Teknav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2013, 19:05   #13
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Lefkas Marina ,Greece
Boat: Bavaria 36
Posts: 22,801
Images: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kettlewell View Post
I don't think Alexandria counts as "Northern Europe." I'm talking about boats from Scandinavia and the UK, that seem to be popular with folks from North America, but frequently don't have things like big opening hatches and ports, full sun protection for the cockpit, and built-in air conditioning, which a lot of people consider critical in Florida. However, things like teak decks and dark-colored hulls are a no-no in Florida. I was just trying to point out a few critical things that might need to be considered. There are many more.

From Wikipedia:
Whose building sailboats in the UK now, other then a few tiny one/two offs ( bowman, gunfleet, discovery) and Oyster. I suspect Scandinavian boats in the US could be counted on one hand, usually they are way too overpriced. ( as the number of yards failing there is testament ) . I'd say very few such boats cross the Atlantic.

I wouldn't see much difference between US sailboats and certain sections of the Euro boat market. true A/C is not common fit on smaller yachts, though that's easily fitted.
Teak decks ate quite a rarity in Europe now, firstly Burmeese teak is banned and beyond one or two makes is rarely fitted now compared to previous years. I also see more plastic teak.

Hatches etc are all very similar , I've sailed hunters and catalinas etc. I would say there's much difference in hatch size etc. blue hulls are a rarity in Europe too as any walk around the usual mega boat parks will testify.

US motorboats are quite different yes, that's true. But sailboats not really

I'm not saying what's good bad or different, merely they all have more in common then they are different

Dave
__________________
Interested in smart boat technology, networking and all things tech
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-03-2013, 08:31   #14
Registered User
 
denverd0n's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 5,009
Images: 6
Re: Boat Ownership Questions

I have to agree with those wondering why you would buy a boat in Europe. There are boats of every size and description available for sale in Florida right now, at almost every price point. I can't imagine that there is anything in Europe that you couldn't also find in Florida.

So, how about some more details about exactly what you are looking for, and why you think you need to go to Europe to find it?
denverd0n is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 18-03-2013, 08:52   #15
Registered User
 
Rocketman's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Naples, FL
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 400
Posts: 669
Re: Boat Ownership Questions

The OP mentioned that he was looking at yachtworld, which does have a lot of EU boat's on it. If you want to see more USA boats then I might suggest sailboatlistings.com, boattrader.com. or even a state wide craigslist search. The hardest part about finding your perfect boat is going to be getting a handle on your budget, and what you want to do with it. If setting in a nice marrina and enjoying cocktails with others is your goal your boat will be different then someone who wants to travel the world. USA, Florida, is the best place in the world right now to buy a boat unless you are looking for something very specific.
Rocketman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
ownership

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:54.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.