Cut mast in half???

[massnspace]

My wife and I are considering buying an older sailboat to do the great loop in. We are sailors, so not interested in the trawler thing…..

We would have to remove the mast (twice) to do this trip.

Shipping it used to be an option, back in the “good old days” when you could find a driver, pay a rational amount and not have it damaged when you finally see it again. But those days are gone, I believe, and sorry to say…I have had (and heard of) a lot of hassles and expenses dealing with these types of projects on another boat I own and talking to friends. DIY, with minimal professional help if and when needed, seems the best way to go at this point in the great American societal evolution...

Storing it on deck then….yes, this will work, but of course now your LOA increases by quite a bit, going thru locks, etc, becomes more of an issue, it’s always in the way, can fall and damage pulpit, etc, etc., etc.

So. Why not cut the mast in half when first pulled, and spice it back together later? Do this twice. It would seem WAY easier to store 2 much smaller sections on the deck and have no overhangs.

I have seen masts spliced together before….but I am guessing the INNER sleeve must be a good fit….how does one find a good inner sleeve? Is that a custom thing?

And we are planning on doing this trip in a standard plastic 80s sailboat….so don’t think we are going to destroy the value of the boat by cutting the mast and doing a proper splice.

Ideas?

[Cheechako]

I wonder if just removing and storing at a yard is a better solution? It's a lot of clutter on deck anyway. A 50 ft mast off say a 36 ft boat will be 25 ft halves, overhanging the companionway and cockpit.

Trawler or mastless sailboat, what's the difference? You'll need a shallow draft sailboat. A trawler has nice accomodation to see what surrounds you on a trip like that rather than "being in the cave.."

or .... Do you have room to store it somewhere? Do you have a rigger locally who would rent you a mast trailer to transport it? How long a mast are we talking?

The inner sleeve is a custom thing. I had one sleeved once and it was expensive. How large a boat are you considering? Many of the larger boat masts are already sleeved, you could look for one that is. Still, I'd store the mast off the boat even if you cut it in half.

[massnspace]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

I wonder if just removing and storing at a yard is a better solution? It's a lot of clutter on deck anyway. A 50 ft mast off say a 36 ft boat will be 25 ft halves, overhanging the companionway and cockpit.

Trawler or mastless sailboat, what's the difference? You'll need a shallow draft sailboat. A trawler has nice accomodation to see what surrounds you on a trip like that rather than "being in the cave.."

or .... Do you have room to store it somewhere? Do you have a rigger locally who would rent you a mast trailer to transport it? How long a mast are we talking?

The inner sleeve is a custom thing. I had one sleeved once and it was expensive. How large a boat are you considering? Many of the larger boat masts are already sleeved, you could look for one that is. Still, I'd store the mast off the boat even if you cut it in half.

To clarify…we would want the mast (to sail with!) on the parts of the journey that we could use it on….so not just “storing it”. It would need to either come with us or be shipped….

We are looking at smaller boats….around 35’….and NOT interested in trawlers….as lovely as they are for others….

[Jammer]

For those unfamiliar with the route, the OP will want to operate with the mast unstepped while on the New York State canals (and possibly Canadian heritage canals) and again while passing through Chicago.


The advice I would give you is to find a sailboat with a deck-stepped mast. For most boats that size with deck-stepped masts, the lowered mast will extend beyond the ends of the boat by a total of around six to eight feet, which can be split as desired between bow and stern. With some carpet to protect the ends of the mast most people find this manageable in the locks and at docks.


I have been through the Sault locks and several of the locks on the Mississippi and have not found it difficult to control the boat as the locks fill. They provide lines. The lockkeepers do not rush the fill. With two line handlers you shouldn't have any trouble.



Splicing the mast is no small thing. You have to get a sleeve made and it is typically riveted in place.

[Rocinante33]

Second not cutting the mast. I did that trip last year with a 52’ mast on a 38’ boat, so significant overhang either end. Never once had a problem with that.

Very helpful fellows at Oswego suggested building a high cradle out of 4x4 and 2 by and bracing. Built it about 4 feet over deck and therefore could easily move about and on and off boat with no interference, they even had a huge pile of wood to pick through. There was an ace hardware for strong timberlok bolts.

It looked a little ‘Beverley Hillbillies” but it was 100% functional. No issue whatsoever with any locks ever. Had to be a bit careful backing into Coeymans in Catskill to put it back up. That was the only issue. Total cost for them to unstep and then restep (there was a diy option both ends) was less than cutting and properly repairing it, and you don’t have an additional unnecessary future fail point.

[deblen]

Originally Posted by massnspace

My wife and I are considering buying an older sailboat to do the great loop in. We are sailors, so not interested in the trawler thing…..

We would have to remove the mast (twice) to do this trip.

Shipping it used to be an option, back in the “good old days” when you could find a driver, pay a rational amount and not have it damaged when you finally see it again. But those days are gone, I believe, and sorry to say…I have had (and heard of) a lot of hassles and expenses dealing with these types of projects on another boat I own and talking to friends. DIY, with minimal professional help if and when needed, seems the best way to go at this point in the great American societal evolution...

Storing it on deck then….yes, this will work, but of course now your LOA increases by quite a bit, going thru locks, etc, becomes more of an issue, it’s always in the way, can fall and damage pulpit, etc, etc., etc.

So. Why not cut the mast in half when first pulled, and spice it back together later? Do this twice. It would seem WAY easier to store 2 much smaller sections on the deck and have no overhangs.

I have seen masts spliced together before….but I am guessing the INNER sleeve must be a good fit….how does one find a good inner sleeve? Is that a custom thing?

And we are planning on doing this trip in a standard plastic 80s sailboat….so don’t think we are going to destroy the value of the boat by cutting the mast and doing a proper splice.

Ideas?

Your last pgh states you are not too concerned with de-valuing this boat.
Why not use a piece of good hardwood (Oak or maple-soaked with cuprinol) for the sleeve.A few hrs planing involved... Good treated wood,up in the air,will last many years.
Cheers/Len

[JPA Cate]

Hello, massnspace,

Jammer's told you the right of it. And I will add that you should be prepared for not very much actual sailing in rivers; it will be flukey. You might want to look at boats with their masts in tabernacles.

If that doesn't suit, be prepared for the motion to be unlike what you have previously experienced in sailboats. When we were dismasted, I learned about that, and I might well not have believed it if I had been warned, but without the mast as a roll dampener, the sloop developed a fast, jerky motion in open water, but much less in protected water.

Ann

[massnspace]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Hello, massnspace,

Jammer's told you the right of it. And I will add that you should be prepared for not very much actual sailing in rivers; it will be flukey. You might want to look at boats with their masts in tabernacles.

If that doesn't suit, be prepared for the motion to be unlike what you have previously experienced in sailboats. When we were dismasted, I learned about that, and I might well not have believed it if I had been warned, but without the mast as a roll dampener, the sloop developed a fast, jerky motion in open water, but much less in protected water.

Ann

Not sure what you mean…we will have the mast DOWN in the rivers, so cannot sail there anyway, and will have the mast UP when in the Great Lakes and coastal sailing…..so there will be no motion issues if the mast is UP in bigger seas….????

[massnspace]

Originally Posted by deblen

Your last pgh states you are not too concerned with de-valuing this boat.
Why not use a piece of good hardwood (Oak or maple-soaked with cuprinol) for the sleeve.A few hrs planing involved... Good treated wood,up in the air,will last many years.
Cheers/Len

I guess that’s possible but I think it might be hard to sell the boat afterwards (which is our plan) if the mast “has a big chuck of wood jammed in it”….

I’m not adverse to spending the money to do it right, but just tying to figure out the angles and if it’s worth the effort…

[massnspace]

Originally Posted by Rocinante33

Second not cutting the mast. I did that trip last year with a 52’ mast on a 38’ boat, so significant overhang either end. Never once had a problem with that.

Very helpful fellows at Oswego suggested building a high cradle out of 4x4 and 2 by and bracing. Built it about 4 feet over deck and therefore could easily move about and on and off boat with no interference, they even had a huge pile of wood to pick through. There was an ace hardware for strong timberlok bolts.

It looked a little ‘Beverley Hillbillies” but it was 100% functional. No issue whatsoever with any locks ever. Had to be a bit careful backing into Coeymans in Catskill to put it back up. That was the only issue. Total cost for them to unstep and then restep (there was a diy option both ends) was less than cutting and properly repairing it, and you don’t have an additional unnecessary future fail point.

When you say you “did the trip”, you did the whole loop? Down the Mississippi?

Also, were you charged for a 52’ or 38’ boat when docking? And was it hard to find a 52’ (or longer) place to stay? We plan on stopping a lot to see things and don’t always want to try to get a 50-60’ slip just for a day or two….

I also think it probable that other people will damage the mast by running into it while trying to dock in front of back of you when on a linear dock...if it’s sticking out 8’ on each end….

[Breaking Waves]

Originally Posted by massnspace

I have seen masts spliced together before….but I am guessing the INNER sleeve must be a good fit….how does one find a good inner sleeve? Is that a custom thing?

Do you know who made the mast/mast tube? Are the still in business?

If they are getting a good sleeve probably would not be so hard - It is often the same extrusion, just sliced vertically (once or) twice to let it fit inside.

A good aluminum fabricator (which many rigging shops are) can make a custom sleeve but they would want to have the mast in their hands out of the boat to do it and it would be more money than the standard extrusion if it is still available.

[Rocinante33]

Originally Posted by massnspace

When you say you “did the trip”, you did the whole loop? Down the Mississippi?

Also, were you charged for a 52’ or 38’ boat when docking? And was it hard to find a 52’ (or longer) place to stay? We plan on stopping a lot to see things and don’t always want to try to get a 50-60’ slip just for a day or two….

I also think it probable that other people will damage the mast by running into it while trying to dock in front of back of you when on a linear dock...if it’s sticking out 8’ on each end….

I was charged for my LOA which is 38’. It was never a question. Most of the tie ups on the Erie Canal are free and easily accessible.

Other people hitting my mast was not a worry either. Nor did I ever hear that as a concern from several other boats we traveled with

My journey was from Ohio to South Carolina and I sailed, or motor sailed lakes Erie and Ontario and the Welland Canal with mast up. Enjoyable sailing.

As for Chicago, in a previous lifetime we marched the boat every autumn up (down?) the Chicago River and removed the mast for winter storage. Plenty of boats keep on going and restep further south.

Wherever you restep I believe that you are going to have very limited sailing opportunities between Chicago and Alabama.

[donradcliffe]

If you want to do the picturesque Canadian canals, you will need a draft of 5 ft or less. Ann is right on with her description of what happens when a wave or boat wake hits a mastless sailboat (catamarans excepted). A power cat would be perfect for the loop.

[Bowdrie]

So you're sailors?
In doing the Great Loop how much of the time can you actually be under sail?
2%? 5%?
The draft, the lack of space, the slow speeds under power, the limited tankage for water/fuel, and being relegated to sitting in a space deficient little cockpit, a stupid mast/boom with all the claptrap and supports and rigging and sails hanging all over the boat,, give yourself a break.
In reality using a smaller sailboat for that trip seems an exercise in machismo.
Don't like Trawlers?
Get a Sam Devlin boat.
https://devlinboat.com/black-crown-30/

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Breaking Waves

Do you know who made the mast/mast tube? Are the still in business?

If they are getting a good sleeve probably would not be so hard - It is often the same extrusion, just sliced vertically (once or) twice to let it fit inside.

A good aluminum fabricator (which many rigging shops are) can make a custom sleeve but they would want to have the mast in their hands out of the boat to do it and it would be more money than the standard extrusion if it is still available.

Splices are usually made by inserting a sleeve, that fits exactly inside the extrusion, and is secured to each section of the mast with stainless fasteners.
Seldén, for instance, ships its extrusions [from Sweden] in 40-foot containers [for cost and protection reasons], so any Seldén mast, supplied in North America, over 40 feet in length, will have a factory splice [nearer the base].
It’s an engineered joint, best designed [including exactly where to place it*] with professional advice.*

I didn’t see any splice sleeves, in Seldén’s catalogue, however ...
Seldén Yacht product catalogue ➥ https://support.seldenmast.com/files.../595-808-E.pdf

See also:
Reassembly of spliced Conventional mast ➥ https://www.catalinadirect.com/image...95A0898DCCD786

* Seldén contacts ➥ https://www.seldenmast.com/contact-us/

Seldén Mast AB, Sweden
Tel: +46 (0) 31 69 69 00
Email: info@seldenmast.com

Seldén Mast Inc, USA
Tel: +1 843-760-6278
Email: info@seldenus.com

* According to Pierre Gutelle, mast sleeves should be placed 25% of spreader spacing, above or under any spreader.