Thread for Basic COLREGS Questions

[roland stockham]

Originally Posted by Adelie

I'd like to know people's opinion of using yellow deck lights all around the boat perimeter and below the regular navigation lights.

As long as they are not flashing coloured lights are legal under the rules. That said any lights can mask navigation lights and make it difficult for others to understand what sort of vessel you are and what you are doing. This does matter even at anchor. Your anchor lights tell others both that you are anchored and what size you are. Underway they can make nav light practically invisible. Ideally try to place shields on lights so they don't shine to seaward
Now take the dink out to 2 miles and see if you can make out you nav lights, if you cannot clearly see what size she is, if she is under sail or motor and which direction she is going in you need to do something about it!!! If it is a sailboat check both the masthead and deck lights. It is often better to use deck lights in habours and approaches than mastheads because they don't get lost among the shore lights so easily. This is especially the case from the bridge of a large ship which is looking DOWN on you so will see your lights against black water.

[roland stockham]

I find the debate about whether 'right of way' should be used when talking about the col regs somewhat odd and confusing especially if this thread aims to clarify the use of the rules. I have only been sailing about 40years but do not remember ever seeing the term 'right of way' used in a nautical publication. It is not used in the UK editions of the IMO collision regs. My understanding is that IMO publishes coll regs in English and those are the regs for all IMO signature countries. Countries MAY publish a translation in there own language to help understanding but the 'official' IMO document takes prescience. So, given that the USCG works in English, do they not simply use the IMO edition and where does all this reference to 'right of way' come from? Not trying to score points but will be sailing through US waters next year so if they have a 'different book' I would like to know!

[Corsair 2]

Just as an interesting aside, the official French version of the Colregs, called RIPAM in French, still use the words 'privileged' and 'non privileged' vessels in section titles. However, they say 'give way' (s'ecarter) and 'stand-on' (maintenir son cap et sa vitesse) in the operational sections. That said, I agree with those calling for more discipline in how we speak (being myself guilty of speaking of burdened and privileged vessels too often).

[bmz]

Originally Posted by Suijin

I don't think an excerpt written by a recreational sailor on the USCG Aux site really qualifies as the USCG's official word on the subject.

Here's an excerpt from the USCG's Navigation Center for Excellence. Italics are mine:

Who has the "right of way" on the water? The Navigation Rules convey a right-of-way only in one particular circumstance: to power-driven vessels proceeding downbound with a following current in narrow channels or fairways of the Great Lakes , Western Rivers, or other waters specified by regulation (Inland Rule 9(a)(ii)). Otherwise, power-driven vessels are to keep out of the way (Rule 18) and either give-way (Rule 16) or stand-on (Rule 17) to vessels not under command or restricted in their ability to maneuver, sailing vessels or vessels engaged in fishing, and, similarly vessels should avoid impeding the safe passage of a vessel constrained by her draft (Rule 18), navigating a narrow channel (Rule 9) or traffic separation scheme (Rule 10). The Rules do not grant privileges they impose responsibilities and require precaution under all conditions and circumstances; no Rule exonerates any vessel from the consequences of neglect (Rule 2). Neglect, among other things, could be not maintaining a proper look-out (Rule 5), use of improper speed (Rule 6), not taking the appropriate actions to determine and avoid collision (Rule 7 & 8) or completely ignoring your responsibilities under the Rules.

The Coast Guard Auxiliary is the uniformed branch of the Coast Guard primarily responsible for education and boat safety training. The author is a widely recognized expert and mariner safety author. His newest book, Suddenly Overboard: True Stories of Sailors in Fatal Trouble, is based on years of studying sailing incidents leading to either rescue or fatality. He has also worked with the American Red Cross and the U.S. Coast Guard Auxiliary writing other boating safety books.

My quotation may have been an "excerpt" but I included the citation to my source material. In this regard, I would appreciate it if you would provide us with a citation to your source material. Assuming that your excerpt is not qualified in the source material, it supports the view that "give way" is used more frequently than yield the "right-of-way" or "keep out of the way." But the point is, in context there is no substantive difference. They all mean the same; but if you want a gold star in terminology, by all means always use "give way.""

[Kelkara]

Ok, you guys seem to have sorted out the "right of way" issue ... I have a basic COLREGS question ...

What is the give-way/stand-on status of a vessel under oars?

The rules only mention lights, which would make them indistinguishable from a sailing vessel. Does this mean they should be treated as if they were "under sail" and if so since the tack is indeterminate, should they be treated as a starboard tack?

Its not just tiny dinghys and kayaks. Dragon boats and ceremonial canoes can be quite big and fast.

[John_Trusty]

Originally Posted by roland stockham

Not trying to score points but will be sailing through US waters next year so if they have a 'different book' I would like to know!

Thanks for cruising in our country. USCG rules are largely just copies of IMO published COLREGS - no problems. There are an additional set of Inland rules published by the US Coast Guard which modify some COLREG rules inside a demarcation line posted on all US charts. Here's a handy guide published by the USCG Navigation Center of Excellence.
https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageNam...lesWithAnnexes

The only mention of "right of way" is modifications of Rules 9 & 14, with respect to " ... a power-driven vessel operating in narrow channel or fairway on the Great Lakes, Western Rivers, or waters specified by the Secretary, and proceeding downbound with a following current shall have the right-of-way over an upbound vessel, shall propose the manner and place of passage, and shall initiate the maneuvering signals prescribed by Rule 34(a)(i), as appropriate. The vessel proceeding upbound against the current shall hold as necessary to permit safe passing." If you're not navigating in an inland current, it simply does not apply.

[roland stockham]

Originally Posted by Kelkara

Ok, you guys seem to have sorted out the "right of way" issue ... I have a basic COLREGS question ...

What is the give-way/stand-on status of a vessel under oars?

The rules only mention lights, which would make them indistinguishable from a sailing vessel. Does this mean they should be treated as if they were "under sail" and if so since the tack is indeterminate, should they be treated as a starboard tack?

Its not just tiny dinghys and kayaks. Dragon boats and ceremonial canoes can be quite big and fast.

The basic principal in the col regs is that the least maneuverable vessels is generally the stand on vessel. The rule for small boats such as tenders or canoes with a max speed of less than 7kns is that they carry a single all round light which identifies them as a 'fixed' hazard unable to maneuver and other vessels should avoid them. With a top speed above 7kn they are assumed to be a power driven vessel and come under those regs. I have never seem mention of larger faster craft propelled by oars/paddles but would expect that, if the max speed is above 7kn, they would then be classed as a power driven vessel. The col regs do not distinguish what type of power is employed, gas, electric or muscle, if you can make more than 7kn you are 'under power'.

[roland stockham]

Originally Posted by Kelkara

Ok, you guys seem to have sorted out the "right of way" issue ... I have a basic COLREGS question ...

What is the give-way/stand-on status of a vessel under oars?

The rules only mention lights, which would make them indistinguishable from a sailing vessel. Does this mean they should be treated as if they were "under sail" and if so since the tack is indeterminate, should they be treated as a starboard tack?

Its not just tiny dinghys and kayaks. Dragon boats and ceremonial canoes can be quite big and fast.

Just noticed the reference to sailboats and lights. A sailboat carries port, starboard and stern lights only (can be combined at the masthead). A small power vessel adds a white running light forward and above. A rowing dingy would carry a single white all round light so except from astern they all look different

[Snore]

Originally Posted by Kelkara

Ok, you guys seem to have sorted out the "right of way" issue ... I have a basic COLREGS question ...

What is the give-way/stand-on status of a vessel under oars?

The rules only mention lights, which would make them indistinguishable from a sailing vessel. Does this mean they should be treated as if they were "under sail" and if so since the tack is indeterminate, should they be treated as a starboard tack?

Its not just tiny dinghys and kayaks. Dragon boats and ceremonial canoes can be quite big and fast.

They are generally stand-on over sail and power.

[roland stockham]

Originally Posted by Snore

They are generally stand-on over sail and power.

Interesting, I have seen a 60 oared war canoe in New Zealand that looked to be traveling at around 15-20kn, about 70ft LOA and weighing several tons (that was just the crew). They may well stand on you but not in the way the coll regs mean! That was definitely a power driven vessel.

[David M]

Great thread Dockhead.

Getting rid of the term "right of way" was a good thing. It implies that the vessel with the right of way is in the right up until the point where there is a collision. The Rules read that at one point in a collision situation, both vessels become the "give way" vessels.

Investigatory boards, including the USCG, can assign both vessels at fault in collisions. They can also assign in what proportion one vessel or the other was at fault...such as a 20%/80% at fault proportion. So don't think that because you were initially the stand on vessel, that you could not be held at least partially at fault should there be a collision.

[Kelkara]

Originally Posted by roland stockham

Just noticed the reference to sailboats and lights. A sailboat carries port, starboard and stern lights only (can be combined at the masthead). A small power vessel adds a white running light forward and above. A rowing dingy would carry a single white all round light so except from astern they all look different

But this is not correct:

Rule 25:
(b)(ii) A vessel under oars may exhibit the lights prescribed in this Rule for sailing vessels, but if she does not, she shall have ready at hand an electric torch or lighted lantern showing a white light which shall be exhibited in sufficient time to prevent collision.

So if a vessel under oars is displaying lights then it should be the same as a sailboat, not a power boat.

Rule 3 does not define a "vessel under oars". I don't buy the argument that oars count as "machinery" making it a power vessel ... The explicit use of lights appropriate for a sailboat seem to contradict that ... apart from having to convince yourself that a paddle is "machinery".

Although people seem to treat rowing/paddle boats as stand-on I can't see where in the rules it states that. They seem to be totally ignored and treated like flotsam in the steering and sailing rules ... which I suppose would make them stand-on ... except at night.

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

...Use of the term "right of way" immediately identifies the lubber, and will get you an instant flunk with many examiners even in a Day Skipper exam... ...

Thanks for such a clear denouncement of the term "right-of-way". I have to admit my lubberly-ness in occasionally using this term - will not make this mistake again.

[charliegrau]

I think there is going to be a lot of traffic on this thread. It is important conceptually to understand that except for the circumstance Suijin mentions regarding downstream river traffic, the COLREGs set responsibilities, but do not confer any rights or privileges. In meeting, crossing, and passing situations (and really, at all other times as well) the captain should be thinking of his responsibilities....not his entitlements...there are no entitlements. Use of words like "right of way" and "privileged vessel" are misleading, especially to less experienced boaters. If you have a question about a given situation, the first thing to do is read the COLREGS. If the COLREGS aren't clear, or you are unsure which one applies, that may be the time to post a query. Safe boating!

[SV Bacchus]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

I can tell you that on an average day here on Tampa Bay, it is readily apparent that only about 10% of the people driving boats are even "vaguely" familiar with the COLREGS.

Having boated on and around Tampa Bay the past 54 years (started at 10 with my father) I would say you are being quite generous!

PS: I was too young to know but dad probably fell into the 90% pool.