Sailboat confused regarding navigation lights

[jmschmidt]

Tri or other multi-color light should be outlawed. They can be very confusing in confused seas when the bow jerks from one side to the other. Try to figure what the hell you are looking at on a dark night.

Also, if their circuit fails they all fail. Really bad are the tricolors with a single common bulb. Separate red, green side lights plus white stern, steaming and anchor lights are not likely to fail all at once.

[Bambooboat]

Well not only I got some great answers and clarification, a robust discussion with much to learn from ensues. Gotta love this forum!

[capt jgw]

Many sailors make the mistake of lighting the steaming light when they're just sailing. That's telling everybody else "I'm a power boat, don't give way to me". Then then get mad when you don't give way. I actually wired my steaming light to my engine panel, it will only come on if my engine key is turned on. That light must never be on unless the engine is running.

[SVHarmonie]

Originally Posted by jmschmidt

Tri or other multi-color light should be outlawed. They can be very confusing in confused seas when the bow jerks from one side to the other. Try to figure what the hell you are looking at on a dark night.

Let me give you a hint, it’s actually really, really easy:

If a light keeps shift from red to green as you look at it the boat is pointed straight at you. I know. Hard.

The issue you describe has nothing to do with the configuration of the light, but is common to ALL properly configured sector lights on small boats in big waves.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by SieveSailor

Not to be a word cop here but deck lights are lights that are used to light up your deck. The "deck lights" being discussed here are navigation lights mounted to the deck. I'm sure that was already clear by context but I just had to say it because there is a big difference and I almost had the wrong lights ordered for me last year.

Which is why I call them "deck level" side lights (with the inverted commas since they should only be close to, not at deck level

[SVHarmonie]

Originally Posted by capt jgw

Many sailors make the mistake of lighting the steaming light when they're just sailing. That's telling everybody else "I'm a power boat, don't give way to me". Then then get mad when you don't give way. I actually wired my steaming light to my engine panel, it will only come on if my engine key is turned on. That light must never be on unless the engine is running.

Sometimes of course a lighting misconfiguaration is just because of a brain fade and flipping the wrong switch, or forgetting something.

But far, far more common are people who just do not understand that the arrangement of light on a boat actually MEAN something important!

When I see somebody motor into the harbor with his tricolor on, his masthead steaming light, AND his deck level lights, I know this is someone who has not the foggiest clue what it means when he sees a single red light off his port bow.

[waterman46]

Originally Posted by SVHarmonie

Sometimes of course a lighting misconfiguaration is just because of a brain fade and flipping the wrong switch, or forgetting something.

But far, far more common are people who just do not understand that the arrangement of light on a boat actually MEAN something important!

When I see somebody motor into the harbor with his tricolor on, his masthead steaming light, AND his deck level lights, I know this is someone who has not the foggiest clue what it means when he sees a single red light off his port bow.

And this is very easy to avoid. Since I am often a bit forgetful, I wired my running lights using a 3 position toggle switch. In center position, all running lights are off. In UP position, only tricolor is on. In DOWN position, only the deck level running lights are on.
Whenever I get time, I will take the suggestion of Capt_jgw and wire my steaming light to get power from the ignition circuit. Great idea!

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by SieveSailor

Not to be a word cop here but...

OK, if we're going to be pedantic (as all threads about Nav Rules must be eventually) then:

There is no such thing as "bow lights." They're side lights, which optionally may be combined in one lantern carried on the fore and aft centerline of the vessel, but only for vessels under 20 meters in length (so the 50'er in the OP would be OK with this.)

We're using "deck level side lights" here only to distinguish them from mast-mounted lights. Don't use that term elsewhere or people might get confused with "deck lights" which are something entirely different. In fact, the rules specifically mention that side lights "shall not be so low as to be interfered with by deck lights."

[Klos2019]

So,how about the situation when you are motor sailing at night? Steaming light on, 2/3's up on masthead, separate stern light and deck level side lights. With the jib or genny up, isn't the steaming light obscured for some 50-70 degrees off the leeward bow?

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Klos2019

So,how about the situation when you are motor sailing at night? Steaming light on, 2/3's up on masthead, separate stern light and deck level side lights. With the jib or genny up, isn't the steaming light obscured for some 50-70 degrees off the leeward bow?

It actually makes you quite visible since your headsail looks like a "chinese lantern"


It does tend to ruin your night vision though, so if I have to, I motorsail at night on the main.

[GILow]

There are some ideas here about special switching systems to avoid confusion.

I can see the appeal, however 30 years of working on automation of systems has taught me that, generally, humans are more reliable than complex automated systems in the long run.

I’d never go down the path of adding the potential points of failure implied by including the boat ignition in a circuit or removing granular control by using specialised switches.

The KISS principle is very much alive and well on my nav lights, I’ve just conditioned myself to go outside and check that the lights make sense after I’ve turned them on, which has the added advantage of checking that they are actually working.

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by GILow

The KISS principle is very much alive and well on my nav lights, I’ve just conditioned myself to go outside and check that the lights make sense after I’ve turned them on, which has the added advantage of checking that they are actually working.

A very valid point. On the other hand, I do like the idea of powering the steaming light off the "acc" position on the ignition switch. It's still available in a pinch (not sure why) but it would be very hard to screw up.

That said, KISS is a good principle, too. To that I'd add good labels. Something obvious like "Steaming," "Sailing" and "Anchor."

It's surprising how many sailors I've had to explain their own nav light switches to. Granted, many were day sailors who really never used them. But the amount of total cluelessness is downright frightening.

[capt jgw]

Originally Posted by SVHarmonie

Sometimes of course a lighting misconfiguaration is just because of a brain fade and flipping the wrong switch, or forgetting something.

But far, far more common are people who just do not understand that the arrangement of light on a boat actually MEAN something important!

When I see somebody motor into the harbor with his tricolor on, his masthead steaming light, AND his deck level lights, I know this is someone who has not the foggiest clue what it means when he sees a single red light off his port bow.

Exactly my point. Clueless! I don't know how common it is elsewhere, but I frequently see it here on Lake Michigan.

[capt.rob]

Just a quick thought to keeep in mind when lighting, I personally like to have lights closer to water when traveling at night as well as a deck light when anchored at night. The reason is when the anchor light is high like on top of a mast the boat appears to be far off on a dark night when actually you are about to collide with it. I speak of this from personal experiance. I have had some close calls with sailboats anchored with just an anchor light on on top of the mast. Remember most boats do not have radar or ASIS Judging distance on a dark night with no horizon can be challenging.I personally have running lights on bow pulpit and stern light as well as steaming and mast head/ anchor light. Try color lights on top of a mast with no lighting closer to decks to me is a collision in the making.

[Force Majeure]

Originally Posted by Bambooboat

Thank you so much for such a quick reply! So if I cannot use the tricolour when motoring that clears it up. A second set of side lights and a masthead light are both necessary. Many thanks!

Another option is the scheme Beneteau uses. Beneteau Oceanis series sailboats from the factory don’t utilize a mast mounted Steaming light or a stern light. They instead use the anchor light, giving them a combined stern light (135 degrees) and a masthead (225 degrees) light. When motoring, they extinguish the tri-color, and light their Bi-color bow light and anchor light.

So, if you already have a bi-color bow light (or side lights), you can dispense with the masthead steaming light and stern light, and just light the bi-color and anchor when steaming. When sailing use the tri-color.