Random Stops of Boaters Unconstitutional

[sailorboy1]

I don't think this thread has anything to do with the Coast Guard (for those making comments about them).

I think it really has to do with the small penis patrols (you know, those that couldn't make it as REAL police).

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by EveningTide

My only interaction with water police was a few years ago at Redondo Beach, CA. I was headed for the harbor and began lowering my sails with half a mile to go. As I am busy doing this (single-hander) here comes a police boat moving fast with lights flashing. I am worried he will crash into me so I try to wave him off. As he gets close (too close) I ask what is going on. He saw my mainsail flapping and thought I must be in distress! Just trying to be helpful and apparently had never thought someone might reduce sail before entering the harbor.

The nicest interaction with Harbor Patrol people was at Isthmus Cove at Catalina Island. I arrived at 11 PM and the harbor boat that responded to my call for a mooring offered to give me a tow and help me get tied up. He said he was a single-hander too and I must be tired and he wanted to help. (He also wanted to avoid an accident caused by me.)

or worse yet training our children to say "eh?" and insisting they say it in French!

[rognvald]

Originally Posted by Rakuflames

What is it with the "sheeple?" You've described them, but I don't know them.

Raku,
"Sheeple" is a derogatory term for ubiquitous Homo Sapiens that refuse to think for themselves and prefer to be told what to do. It is a very contagious mentality that has been known to infect those of lesser "Wills" that are in close proximity to the infected organisms. I use this term either a.) standing alone or b.) in conjunction with a synonymous term-- "mushroom heads." Once infected, there are few known antidotes and generally these organisms remain resistant to all known therapies for the rest of their lives.*



* These definitions are derived from Rognvald's " History of the Common Man-- A Treatise of Medicority" published in serial form in People magazine.

[rtbates]

Originally Posted by rognvald

Wow, Ryan . . . great videos! I'm going to send those around to friends. What would the average Sheeple do?

IF you're not drinking or hauling drugs, why treat the police like they are the enemy?

I grew up in the 60's counter culture where the police were the 'pigs'. Not anymore. I've grown up and know that they're are doing a difficult job where some get killed at road stops. Give 'em a break for heavens sake.

It's called common courtesy. Try it sometime.

[Capt RonB]

I was parked in the campground at Sebastian Inlet State Park here in Florida on a Sunday afternoon. From my lounge chair, I counted no less than 10 different local gendarmes of one flavor or another patrolling the same 200 yards of water and pulling over everything that passed nearby. The only boats that got through uninhibited were the ones that passed by when all the patrol craft were otherwise occupied.

Just watching my tax dollars at work.

[colemj]

Originally Posted by rtbates

IF you're not drinking or hauling drugs, why treat the police like they are the enemy?

This attitude is how one loses all of their rights and control of the government.

Do you feel comfortable being seized and searched at will, no matter how many times per day or week it occurs and no matter how invasive it is? Do you feel totally certain that all local police are upstanding and would never plant evidence or guide a situation toward their agenda?

If so, I bet I could do a search of the news and find 3 incidents matching the above from the past week, if not the past day.

And the thread isn't about police in general, it is about the Barney Fifes that are so common on the waterways. They really do act like is being described. Google Florida marine police, for an example of the worse.

Mark

[AbaftAndBaffled]

Originally Posted by rtbates

IF you're not drinking or hauling drugs, why treat the police like they are the enemy?

I grew up in the 60's counter culture where the police were the 'pigs'. Not anymore. I've grown up and know that they're are doing a difficult job where some get killed at road stops. Give 'em a break for heavens sake.

It's called common courtesy. Try it sometime.

They aren't the enemy, they're just stifling to the point of frustration here. Think about it, they are so invasive that there are laws being passed to keep them at bay.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by rognvald

Raku,
"Sheeple" is a derogatory term etc...

Yes. You explained the derogatory term before. What I said was that I don't know any such people. I think it's another assumption made about people one really doesn't know a thing about.

[ryon]

Originally Posted by rtbates

IF you're not drinking or hauling drugs, why treat the police like they are the enemy?

I grew up in the 60's counter culture where the police were the 'pigs'. Not anymore. I've grown up and know that they're are doing a difficult job where some get killed at road stops. Give 'em a break for heavens sake.

It's called common courtesy. Try it sometime.

No, it's called overstepping your authority. Let's stay on point here. The cops have pejorative names for US too, you know!

[TO] justify a stop, police must be able to point to “specific and articulable facts” that would indicate to a reasonable person that a crime has been, is being, or is about to be committed. - Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1 (1968) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_stop

THAT is the LAW. The police have no authority to stop and question a citizen without having observed a CRIME. Otherwise, they are just there to chat with you. You have no obligation to chat back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

I know this is a heavy topic for a sailing forum, but every citizen has a right and a responsibly to defend themselves from this aggressive behavior from public servants wherever they find it. It's spread from wholesale roadblocks of our automobiles and now they're coming aboard our boats. These officers are not promoting boating safety when they make these warrantless stops -- they are trying to SEIZE YOUR BOAT!

I put up those videos as examples to show that there are limits to police powers. There is much more info if you'll look for it on the 'net.

Be safe!

[rognvald]

Originally Posted by Rakuflames

Yes. You explained the derogatory term before. What I said was that I don't know any such people. I think it's another assumption made about people one really doesn't know a thing about.

Raku, Sheeple is the result of a literary device called a contraction. Sheep People becomes-- Sheeple. The fact that you don't know people of whom I would call Sheeple is a personal matter. All statements one makes in life are "subjective" in that they are the by-product of one person's thoughts. Being an educated person with much personal experience in observing human beings and their nature, I believe the majority of the people in the world fall under this category. There are very few souls worldwide who live by conviction, principle and ethics and are willing to demonstrate those attributes when necessary irrespective of what the amoebic masses have been conditioned to do. How does this relate to the topic at hand? When people live with no principle, conviction or courage, they are easily led to do whatever they are told to do. We have a unique tradition in the US that is based in our Constitution and Bill of Rights. Most in this country do not know what is written in those documents or really don't care as long as their lives remain relatively unchanged. So, police or marine stops without probable cause isn't a problem because they have been told what do their entire lives and this is just another order they have been conditioned to obey. The danger in this mentality is that erosion of one's rights becomes manifestly progressive and the end product is what we saw in the Iron Curtain countries after WWII. Ask the Poles, Lithuanians, Romanians, East Germans, Slavs and Russians who lived through that tyranny what they think. Good luck, good sailing and may you have courage to live by your convictions.

[zboss]

Originally Posted by Don L

I don't think this thread has anything to do with the Coast Guard (for those making comments about them).

I think it really has to do with the small penis patrols (you know, those that couldn't make it as REAL police).

Fair enough. However, being one of a few that has pulled a woman out of the water who had been run over by a drunk dinghy operator (she was split open from buttocks to neck) I don't have an issue with random DUI checks on the water.