Oh, What a Tangled Web We Weave

[FirePitt]

I am an Aussie who may be buying a boat this weekend. Thats the easy part... I will buy it in Oregon but its Washington registered. I want to keep it in Cali for 3 months or more before Cruising. I would like to fly an Aussie flag maybe even visit or not? I'd rather not pay tax to everyone. I can sail it I can fix it I can buy it but I really cannot understand what I should do with the paperwork.

I called Aussie Customs they say I no pay till I arrive. So I don't take it there ok? Till I go everywhere else first.

But which forms do I show the Mexican guys ETC ....Title? registration? what paper will say its mine and I am from Australia "Passport" if I deregister it here. How will I get the papers from Australia? from who?

So what will I really need to get to just sail away?

[tackdriver]

Hey, I'm doing the same thing, on the other coast. The easiest way to go that I've found so far is:
You get Australian Registration - there's some paperwork (Surprise!) but its seems pretty straight forward, and costs around $1000 AUD.
Brochure - Australian Register of Ships
Then the problems start! You will have a foreign boat in the US. Some states like to tax you if you hang around too long - and believe it or not, they actually police this stuff. You'll have to find out what the time limit is in Oregon and California. You can reset the time limit by going elsewhere, but you need to get evidence you went elsewhere - e.g. Marina receipt from another state.
More than this I haven't discovered yet - I'm still in the survey/offer phase.
MarkJ has been through all this some time ago. I have been pestering him with questions, and haven't got to this one yet, so maybe you can resolve it and let me know!
What's the boat?
cheers
James

[Ex-Calif]

I am sure MarkJ will dive in here shortly - He is probably anchored somewhere nice drinking homebrew (boatbrew?) and trying to get connected...

He bought a boat recently in the US and sailed it through the panama canal across the pacific and is now going up the coast of Australia.

If he doesn't dive in here soon I suggest to PM him. He has latest and exact experience doing what you propose.

[FirePitt]

She is a 41' Formosa PH Ketch. pics look nice broker sounds? "non commited" I also want to know what would happen if I pay the tax here, sail away and never go back. here or there. I have very flexible plans. I just know that they are on a boat.. my plans.. I would be happy to go every where before getting home or back here. I don't want my boat impounded ssomewhere random becausse the aussie has a yankie boat?

[FirePitt]

So What a shitty day. Yesterday I did a 500mile land drive in a Damn car. Today I find the Broker at McCuddy's in Portland doesn't know a sailboat from a toilet. Lets just say that the dog crap all over this boat would wash off maybe, however the boat may well sink if you scrub too hard doing it.

But according to him with a little R & R ????? the boat would be tip top and capable of crossing the Pacific. What a criminal scam. Would a rational person expect an honest brokerage to outright lie to them? well O.K maybe we should. But don't these a$$holes realize you wouldn't buy a boat from them?

[Talbot]

Sorry about your experience, but there will be a boat out there somewhere with your name on it!

Keep looking.

[marno]

I bought my boat in New Jersey, deregistered it there and then it took a couple of months to register it in Oz. We didn't stay anywhere too long, so local taxes weren't an issue. We were supposed to get a cruising permit, but didn't manage to find someone who knew how to do it for us, having bought the boat in the country, till a couple of days before we left, after having been in the country for six months. We flew in and were there under the visa waiver program, so we had to go to Canada after three months to stay legal (you can't extend the visa waiver, you have to leave the country and come back).
Now that the boat has been registered in Oz, nobody questions it, or says anything about tax.
Any questions, feel free to ask.
Cya
Marno

[Jim Cate]

G'Day FirePitt,

I too am sorry about your experience with a less than honest/forthcoming broker. Ann and I had the exact same experience in the other end of the world as Yanks buying in Oz! Hired a car, drove from Brisbane to Church Point (in Broken Bay near Sydney for those unfamiliar with Oz) to look at a boat. It was less than two years old, and was described by broker and owner as being in "first class yacht condition". We were not too happy to find peeling hull paint, sagging decks, broken joinery and the engine in bits all over the cabin sole. Then the broker was surprised when I was upset with her! Not a clue, she had, and a year later when we were again searching in the area we wouldn't even look at a boat she was representing. I realistically expect a bit of exaggeration in their descriptions, but gross distortion is too much.

Do keep looking though, we did for three years, and eventually it all came together and we're very happy with the outcome: Insatiable II.

Cheers,

Jim

[Pblais]

Yesterday I did a 500mile land drive in a Damn car. Today I find the Broker at McCuddy's in Portland doesn't know a sailboat from a toilet.

I think expectations are greater than the ability of the broker to supply. The sell them -they don't promise anything. You can't actually base a purchase decision on a brokers word. I wouldn't make an offer on a boat unseen and obviously you would not either.

It's OK to take a hunch on a boat to go look at through. Your hunch was wrong. You pick up and move on quickly. These are the serious limitations when you travel to buy a boat. It costs a lot of money to do that. I figure we spent about $2K extra closing on a boat not close to home. We were under 300 miles away. We found the boat on the second day. It only costs more if you add distance and time.

As for the original topic. You need a valid registration. Failure to produce one on demand means the assumption is you stole the boat should the authorities in question have any doubt. Not having a valid title is your problem. A bill of sale is not a title. You need one to get the other. Register the boat some place legally and avoid the potential problem. It's a very good chance no one will ask - unless they do. The goal of avoiding the tax is a separate matter.

[FirePitt]

Thanks Pblais,

The O.T is really more important. Paperwork... I would gladly pay the GST import duty and other charges in australia if I could pay them now hoist the flag and go. but its never that simple. Australia wants the tax payable on all import related costs. If it takes me 5 years and who knows how much I will spend from now till then on the boat etc they will try to tax me for all the money I spent on the entire trip. The registration needs sorting. The 2 things I want in a boat are the ability to own it outright.... and the paperwork to ensure the MAN cannot question that its mine. I am not really interested in insurance (call me crazy) but what is the minimum paperwork thats required to cruise?

The part about the dishonest broker wasting my tie is the $$$ what about the $1000 it costs to drive 1148miles in 3 1/2 days with kids a dog etc... bla bla say the brokers...but ultimately there is $1000 less in the purchase fund. Then when I do find the boat I want the broker that time will bitch and moan when I offer less and less. but will he understand that its his sh1tty brethern costing him, Will he care?

[Pblais]

I am not really interested in insurance (call me crazy) but what is the minimum paperwork thats required to cruise?

A set of title papers would be minimal. Passports for the crew would be nice too. Some marinas will want insurance. Some may even ask to see the policy and proof thereof. None of this is really important until it is requested. The no answer at that point in time would not follow with good attitudes. ID for you and the boat are really pretty minimal.

Liability insurance is important should something happen. It's possible they hold the boat and you in jail as a hostage. It's not like it's typical or common but when bad stuff happens it does.

Then when I do find the boat I want the broker that time will bitch and moan when I offer less and less. but will he understand that its his sh1tty brethern costing him, Will he care?

They only get paid in the event of a sale. At that point they cash the commission check and smile. You can piss away a lot of money chasing after boats. Getting a bit more systematic might limit the number of rat holes you chase down. You only require once decent boat. Just a conversation with a broker is not anything to get worked up about and travel. If you can't see 5 boats on a trip then put a few more together to make the possible payoff work. There clearly could have been a few more to see in 500 miles driving. Even if you find a good one, it's a few more repeat trips to close the deal. You then figure out how to fix all the stuff that does not pass at the survey or the following days and get it moving so you don't build up even more costs.

[tackdriver]

Originally Posted by FirePitt

Australia wants the tax payable on all import related costs. If it takes me 5 years and who knows how much I will spend from now till then on the boat etc they will try to tax me for all the money I spent on the entire trip.

It looks like this is how it's calculated when you read the Customs website, but that's not actually the case. Search for other threads on this. You can factor about 12% on the cost of the boat to pay the tax into Aus. And you only pay if you bring it back here permanently, you can sail the world with Aus reg and never come to Australia.

cheers
James

[marno]

While it took 2 months for us to get our registration is Oz sorted out, we kept copies of all the paperwork we sent (you have to send the originals). We never got asked for the paperwork, although we did get asked if we had a cruising permit by someone in a harbour masters boat in Onset. We explained the problems we had getting one, he didn't believe us and said he would be back the next day.... Never came back, obviously found it too hard, as we did.

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by FirePitt

The part about the dishonest broker wasting my tie is the $$$ what about the $1000 it costs to drive 1148miles in 3 1/2 days with kids a dog etc... bla bla say the brokers...but ultimately there is $1000 less in the purchase fund. Then when I do find the boat I want the broker that time will bitch and moan when I offer less and less. but will he understand that its his sh1tty brethern costing him, Will he care?

Sorry for the troubles FirePitt.

One thought is that we have thousands of members that read this board. Members have done each other the favor of eyeballing a boat that they happen to be near.

Something like, "I am interested in a boat in Portland and before i drive all the way up there, I was wondering if anyone in the area would be willing to look at the boat. Please PM me if you can help."

Once again - members are members and may not have your expectations for a boat either. I can understand the frustration of driving a long way to look at an unsuitable boat.

In regards to the Aussie paperwork. It seems like the advice is still coming along.

The one thing that doesn't make sense is the cost of sailing around the world gets taxed. That doesn't sound right.