Handgun onboard on ICW

[Robin3]

Originally Posted by Bulawayo

Hi Robin - that is one of the problems with cruising - I had not even heard of that incident. Reminds me when we travelled to visit family in 1998 and my sisters children asked us our opinion of a pop group called The Spice Girls - our reaction was ''who are they?"
However, the postal worker sounds very lucky - unless he was just carrying an urgent despatch for the President!

IIRC he was carrying some kind of petition with thousands of signatures and loadsa pages, probably didn't trust it to go via USPS.

BTW who are the Spice Girls?

[sailnow2011]

Originally Posted by skipmac

I was born and raised in the south and it is certainly not my experience that "most people carry concealed" with or without permits.

Based on online data for carry permits state by state I checked 7 southern states. Most were 3-4%, TX, LA, GA. AL was 10%. The highest I checked was KY with 13%.

11million adults roughly in FL,
1.6 million active licenses.
If your going to rob someone you have a roughly 1 in 7 chance of getting shot.

There are only 11.1 million permit holders in the USA for conceal carry. (this does not count those who carry in a constitutional state where permit is not required)
Florida has 18% of all permits held
Welcome to FL, criminals unwelcome :P

[CampDavid]

that assumes everyone with a gun had a permit.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[lonesoldier0408]

In all honesty, those who have become a victim to gun crimes, are in pain. They petition politicians to enact laws which will prevent others from becoming victims and suffering pain as they have.

The truth is they help politicians generate revenue, as all laws associated with firearms generate a taxable event and prevent nothing.!

The opportunity to be tried by twelve is a taxable event. Your attorney's fee will be a taxable event which should leave you free to continue paying taxes.

Your death, should you decide not to defend yourself, will be a taxable event.!

The heart of this is what risk are you willing to take to insure your future. We all die in the end.

I agree that live and let live should be rule number 1, however that is not the world we live in.

Just as the expectation that all LEO's are honestly just protecting the public, and not an extension of the over reaching tax collection actions of an out of control government.

They say these laws have helped, yet people still die.

My brother was stabbed through the heart, where is the law that will bring him back to us.?

[CampDavid]

Not to take anything away from your brothers tragic death.

It just boils down to choices. A society with easy access to firemans or a society which makes makes firearms very difficult or near impossible to obtain.

The real issue in America is the Genie is out of the bottle. How can you remove the problem now.



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[Bulawayo]

Another view from a non-American;
The criminal elements in countries that have never had the USA position regarding easy to access guns shall continue to obtain firearms regardless of what the law requires.
It is often only difficult for law abiding citizens.
I recall the elderly farmer in UK that shot and killed an intruder using his shotgun & then being charged with murder and going to jail despite the fact that the criminal had a violent history and was carrying a knife. There was a public outcry but it made zero difference. In Zimbabwe farmers are often murdered by government sanctioned criminals and there is zero investigation as the President actually promotes this type of action publicly. The farmers have often had their firearms licenses revoked and cannot defend their families and employee's. There are too many terrible stories.

Originally Posted by CampDavid

Not to take anything away from your brothers tragic death.

It just boils down to choices. A society with easy access to firemans or a society which makes makes firearms very difficult or near impossible to obtain.

The real issue in America is the Genie is out of the bottle. How can you remove the problem now.



Sent from my SGH-I337M using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[lesterbutch]

Originally Posted by pwhitburn

As an Australian living in a relatively safe and gun free country I have a great deal of difficulty understanding why anyone would want to carry a gun while cruising in their own country.
I accept that I do not understand the gun culture of the USA but in my opinion it reenforces my thoughts that America is a country in decline.
I accept that I am looking at the issue from afar and I can also accept that there may be a reason for a gun in some unsafe countries but against my fellow cruisers "give me a break"
Our country is a long way from perfect so don't waste your time telling me about our problems.
This is very sad.

It is really not hard to understand our "gun culture", simply look at at our history. As I am sure you are aware our constitution guarantees the right to bear arms! To us that right is inalienable. The West was won by the Remington rifle, not by the six gun. And none of that nonsence you see in cowboy movies happened. I do not believe there was a single case of drawing down on each other, but there were a lot of guns!

[Robin3]

Originally Posted by Bulawayo

Another view from a non-American;
The criminal elements in countries that have never had the USA position regarding easy to access guns shall continue to obtain firearms regardless of what the law requires.
It is often only difficult for law abiding citizens.
I recall the elderly farmer in UK that shot and killed an intruder using his shotgun & then being charged with murder and going to jail despite the fact that the criminal had a violent history and was carrying a knife. There was a public outcry but it made zero difference. In Zimbabwe farmers are often murdered by government sanctioned criminals and there is zero investigation as the President actually promotes this type of action publicly. The farmers have often had their firearms licenses revoked and cannot defend their families and employee's. There are too many terrible stories.

That UK farmer, who had suffered several previous burglaries, laid in wait for another and made the mistake of shooting an intruder who was already discouraged at finding somebody home and was running away hence not strictly an act of self defence but seen by the law as retaliation, otherwise most likely he would not have been charged let alone convicted. He was, however, eventually freed under appeal I believe, after a public outcry.

The difference in the USA I think is that if you can claim simply being in fear for your life or fearful of serious injury, then shooting to kill is legitimate.

I think this threadwill inevitably be closed soon so will say no more at the risk of antagonising the gun nuts even more .

[Davy J]

You guys realize the OP is MIA, and has not made any other posts right????

OP if you are still out there, I can recommend this book. It mainly deals with Florida laws but discusses traveling through other states:

http://www.floridafirearmslaw.com/

[lonesoldier0408]

It's interesting, you've invested and succeeded so you must become a victim to the less educated and a morally depraved individual to prove your success.

"That unauthorised boarder had no way of knowing things would escalate, or they would have molested another cruiser." Really.? :what:

[hsi88]

I prefer black bear arms over grizzly. Easier to carry!

[sailnow2011]

Originally Posted by CampDavid

Not to take anything away from your brothers tragic death.

It just boils down to choices. A society with easy access to firemans or a society which makes makes firearms very difficult or near impossible to obtain.

The real issue in America is the Genie is out of the bottle. How can you remove the problem now.



Sent from my SGH-I337M using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

I see foreigners comments on guns all the time, its ok not to understand.
We have as much rights to guns here as we do to free speech.
I was watching gold coast cops, they arrested a guy for cursing at them.
Some might say its our second amendment rights that protect our first.

I pity any country where the population does not have gun rights.
Firstly if you ever had to overthrow the government, without guns, your not going to.
Secondly criminals will still get guns, they may be harder to get for street level guys, but the big guys who smuggle ECT can always get them. Thats what is going on in Europe right now. AK-47's are showing up everywhere in criminals hands. The well behaved public is without defense.

So here in the US we will always have guns.
So will criminals. Best to be armed, then dead.

[SailBender]

Originally Posted by sailnow2011

11million adults roughly in FL,
1.6 million active licenses.
If your going to rob someone you have a roughly 1 in 7 chance of getting shot.

There are only 11.1 million permit holders in the USA for conceal carry. (this does not count those who carry in a constitutional state where permit is not required)
Florida has 18% of all permits held
Welcome to FL, criminals unwelcome :P

I think you miss the fact that it is a symbiotic relationship with gun nuts and violent criminals. Our violent crime rates are through the roof compared to almost all first world countries.

If criminals think there is a good chance they could be shot at during a robbery, they will often choose to remove that risk and come at you with greater force to either incapacitate or kill you to prevent retaliation.

Most gun lovers live in a dream world where they are a badass and criminals announce with a loud speaker that you need to be prepared to be robbed. It doesn't happen that way in real life. Most people will get very scared and not think straight in bad situations. This is why it is so rare that a ccw permit holder successfully intervenes in bad situations where it actually results in just the criminal being harmed or stopping the act.

So again, think about this from a criminals perspective. People being armed means they need to be armed or use surprise to hurt you very badly. This is the same reason why cops in other countries do not carry firearms at all. Look at some countries in Europe that fired off only a handful of rounds for their entire nations police force in a single year. All of their crime stats are much, much lower and murdered cops are never in the news.

[peer64]

Bottom line is, as a citizen of the U.S.A. we have the right to keep and bear arms. And yes defend ourselves. From who? Does'nt matter. Just watch the evening news. Having prescription drugs makes you a target. Yes "they" will kill you for a couple of pills! Just obey the laws, both Federal and and State, and all is good.

P.S. A call to the State Police in each state your traveling through will give you all the info you seek. Very simple.

John,

Don't dream the life, live the dream.

[dennismenace111]

Originally Posted by Bulawayo

Hi Ron, How does having a handgun onboard make you less safe, as long it is handled and stored safely? Unless someone specifically mentions having a weapon onboard how shall anyone else know?
I agree that if everyone were honest and there was no malicious intent (ever) then the statement would be correct. What none of us know is how likely it is that we become a victim. Even the Queen of England had an intruder in her bedroom a number of years ago. Who would have predicted that?
There is no right response to this issue ....... each must do what they believe is correct whilst ensuring they stay on the correct side of legislation. I personally would not criticise someone for carrying a gun and would not criticise them for not carrying one either.
Most likely the best possible advise is identification of legislation to enable compliance.
Best regards and safe sailing.

Actually if you read the reports and statistics from the Center of Disease Control, you will find that having a gun in your home is considerably more dangerous than not.. Now.. understand and take that with a grain of salt...its raw data.. and raw data can leave out alot... but there is evidence that you are safer without it.

That said, Im going to go clean my gun now!