Flag Etiquette Question

[Seymore]

Originally Posted by hoppy

Is this correct flag etiquette?

O sure, it's proper. Looks like they're having great fun. What's the occasion?

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

Could anyone with an interest in flags please take a look and see if anything I have written is incorrect, or if anything additional should be added?

Comments on the sticky:

I would suggest in the preamble that the use of a Q flag is "generally subject to law" as much as the ensign.

Under special Ensigns it should be noted that the US 'yacht' ensign shall not be flow in international waters (eg only flown in US waters). As currently written this section basically only addresses UK ensigns.

Some (top) clubs can (but not required) race with their burgees flying. The CCA (my club) is one. I believe the RCC also does. These same clubs also insist it is only proper to fly the burgee at the masthead (RYS, RTYC and the RCC all require the burgee to be flown from the masthead, failure to do so can lead to the forfeiture of your membership). For the CCA, if that is not possible then you fly the member flag (not the Burgee) at the starboard spreader.

Q flag is flown alone on the starboard spreader at time of entry. It is NOT flown with the courtesy flag. The Q flag is flown before you are cleared in and the courtesy flag after you have cleared in (it is an indication that you have been cleared).

The Bravo flag is flown when taking on fuel - it is required at some fuel docks, mostly government/military ones (like puerto williams)

[Seymore]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

My boat was built with a short flagstaff incapable of carrying an ensign appropriate to the size of the boat. I got tired of the stupid little ensign and bought a bigger one. Since it wouldn't fit the flagstaff, I tied it to the backstay. And that looked stupid in its own way, drooping on the deck when there's no wind.

But then I saw a Finnish boat with the ensign hauled half way up the backstay -- and I thought it looked terrific! So I hauled my ensign up on a halyard, with a downhaul.

Is this permitted? I remember reading somewhere the permitted positions of the ensign on a single-masted yacht, but can't remember them, or where to find it.

Is this permitted? Yes and no. On your vessel, only a flagstaff on the stern will do. Install a longer flagstaff.

We (I know you're of the UK) take our flag etiquette from the Royal Navy. Note that they fly the Ensign from a staff at the stern, case closed.

In the 1800s the New York Yacht Club was in a quandry. They were embroiled in controversy about how to fly flags (yachts of the period had long decksweeper mizzen booms and there was no convenient place for an Ensign), with all kinds of strong opinions and thread drift (sounds familiar, right?). So, considering that US law and protocol were based on British practice, they wrote to the Royal Navy and asked them what their established practice was flying the Ensign on their ships. And the Royal Navy replied that they always flew the Ensign from the gaff of the mizzen on their ships.

Well, the Royal Navy knew its stuff. So the New York Yacht Club, the senior yacht club in the US, decreed that protocol said that the proper place for the US Ensign was flying from the gaff of the aftermost sail. And all the yacht clubs in the US followed suit and adopted this protocol. And the dictum spread to other countries. Yachts all over the world flew their Ensigns from the gaff of the mizzen.

And when the marconi rig came in with its improved beating to windward, they continued the practice the way they had always done it, attaching the Ensign 2/3 of the way up the leech of the aftermost sail or backstay or something. And you see that all the time these days. And yacht clubs and authorities formally specify that it's OK to fly the ensign from the leech of the main if it's 2/3 of the way up. And that's why they do that.

But the catch is, when the New York Yacht Club asked the Royal Navy where protocol dictated that they fly their Ensigns on their ships, the Royal Navy had just switched from galleons(???) to pinnaces(???). On galleons, and just about every other kind of ship the Navy had, the aft deck was clear and could take a flagstaff for the Ensign, and they put it there. The pinnace had a decksweeper mizzen that wouldn't let a flagstaff or anything else be installed on the stern, and they needed the flag to be seen, so they flew it from the gaff of the mizzen. And when they went on to thelr next series of ships, presumably steam powered, they could put the Ensign back in its proper place, where it had been for thousands of years--on a flagstaff on the stern.

The New York Yacht Club never asked about no galleons and pinnaces and steamboats, so the Navy didn't see any reason to go into that kind of detail.

You follow the protocol defined by the Royal Navy. No deviation! You fly your Ensign from a stern staff like the Navy flies its Ensigns from a stern staff--unless you can't because you have a deck sweeper mizzen boom or a sport fishing boat that has fishing lines trailing out of the back all the time or you're a tug who tows other ships or something.

There. Now you know something the New York Yacht Club doesn't know.



[Unix type disclaimer: That's true, that is, I read it somewhere. I can't provide a reference right now and I can't remember details like the exact year and the exact names of the types of Navy ships.]

[Seymore]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

Comments on the sticky:

I would suggest in the preamble that the use of a Q flag is "generally subject to law" as much as the ensign.


Q flag is flown alone on the starboard spreader at time of entry. It is NOT flown with the courtesy flag. The Q flag is flown before you are cleared in and the courtesy flag after you have cleared in (it is an indication that you have been cleared).

The Bravo flag is flown when taking on fuel - it is required at some fuel docks, mostly government/military ones (like puerto williams)

It's so, thank you, Evans.

We should note that the Q and Bravo flags are full fledged signal flags and are to be flown as the 'International Code of Signals' specifies.

[markpierce]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

...
The Bravo flag is flown when taking on fuel - it is required at some fuel docks, mostly government/military ones (like puerto williams)

Bravo (taking on fuel) flag is on the third hoist of the port spreader:



A different flag indicates there is a pilot onboard. From port to starboard: private flag, pilot-aboard flag, fuel-loading flag, provincial-coutesy (British Columbian) flag, national-courtesy (Canadian) flag. I only have a single hoist on both starboard and port spreaders. Seems like "real boats" have three hoists on each.

[markpierce]

Originally Posted by Pete7

There is one flag that you must fly however:

Done that (here making a 360). But who can tell from farther than a boat's length?

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by markpierce

From port to starboard: private flag, pilot-aboard flag......

Second is code flag 'A'... I have a diver below.

Originally Posted by markpierce

Seems like "real boats" have three hoists on each.

Real boats have all sorts of things... I have been on ships with 4 on the triatic stay plus one to port and one to starboard on the foremast, all sorts of combos... these days most ships dont have anything but a stump signal mast on the monkey island so they have to hang all their washing up on the same stick.

Not sure if it is still the case but Japan used to require your full radio callsign to be flown... I guess before VHF was common it helped in a busy anchorage or busy port approaches.

Interesting thing about code H, I have a pilot aboard, ... most pilot boats don't fly that one, they fly one with the white over red divided horizontally, not vertically.