Citizenship and documentation. Recent changes.

[weavis]

Im a green card holder. If I were staying in the USA... it pays to be a citizen. I would not have lost my other countries citizenship. I decided to leave instead.

[TonyBe]

Originally Posted by Chachacha

How long can a foreign flagged boat stay in the US if we are permanent residents? A year?

[...]

And then, if we stay as a foreign flagged vessel, don't we have to jump through extra hoops every time I go from port to port, say from Savannah to Charleston?

As I understand the issue there is no time limit for a foreign flagged boat staying in the USA.

Rather than jumping through extra hoops when you go from port to port you can get a cruising license as long as the boat is flagged in one of the following countries:-

Argentina, Anguilla, Australia, Austria, Bahamas, Belgium, Bermuda, British Virgin Islands, Canada, Cayman Islands, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Great Britain, Greece, Honduras, Ireland, Italy, Jamaica, Liberia, Marshall Islands, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, St Vincent and the Grenadines, St Kitts and Nevis, Turks and Caicos, Sweden, Switzerland and Turkey. (there may be other EU countries as well)

This will mean that you won't have to contact CBP every time you go from one port to another.

If you were non-resident then you would not be able to get successive cruising licenses (ie the boat would have to leave the US for 15 days every year), but as a resident then you can and so your boat doesn't need to leave the country:-

Under CBP policy, non-U.S. residents are not eligible for successive cruising licenses.

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/det...ld-one-expires


If you don't have a cruising license then, yes, you do have to report every movement.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Chachacha

Other than not being able to vote and consular services, green card holders normally have the same rights as citizens. This is the first time I've come across something where it is annoying to not be a citizen. That's why I thought it was a mistake in language. So many people mix the terms resident and citizen. Obtaining US citizenship is not desirable for everybody. Just for sailing purposes, for example, renouncing my European passport would mean having to limit stays in Europe to 3 months. Oh yeah, there's another negative of not being US citizen: if I leave the country to go cruising for a year, I could jeopardize my green card status even if I'd still be paying taxes here. Ok, things can get complicated, and that's why I'm doing all this research in my early planning stages. But having a drawer full of passports between the three of us, from three different continents (all desirable countries), where we know we can pack up and leave any time, is a nice thing. So if the only consequence for now is that I can't do skippered charters but only bareboat charters, oh well. That wasn't my intention from the beginning anyhow.
My kid, however might get a captain's license sooner or later, she is a fine sailor, races MC Scows and Flyingg Scots, teaches sailing to little kids in summer camps, my spouse likes crewing on other people's boats and has a few certifications, but I'm the one in the family who actually wants to GET a boat and get into the cruising lifestyle. Just looking for a way to financially actually be able to do it. Therefor the business plan with chartering.

Btw, one of the boats I have at the top of my wishlist is not US-built.

So, thanks, everyone for all your input, this info really helped.

I commend you for your honesty.

Most people take the oath of citizenship and renounce their original citizenship as required to gain citizenship but then never bother to follow thru and actually hand back the other passports.

[Chachacha]

Originally Posted by weavis

Im a green card holder. If I were staying in the USA... it pays to be a citizen. I would not have lost my other countries citizenship. I decided to leave instead.

Good for you. Not every country is as forwardthinking as yours.

[RaymondR]

Yep, and don't even think about running for parliament in Australia, the place is chaotic enough already without another citizenship mess.

[Chachacha]

Interesting... I just found out that to flag my boat in the country of my European passport (Denmark), I have to be citizen AND resident. So I can't flag it in the US, OR Denmark. I might have to resort to a flag of convenience in a country I have no ties to, like Malta or the Netherlands, maybe. I had no idea this was going to be this complicated. Can I still have my hailing port be my home city in the US? I want it to be easy enough to move around in the Mediterranean, but since the boat won't stay in Europe, I also don't think I should have to pay VAT. When in US waters (with a cruising permit for a foreign flagged boat), I always need to actually fly the flag of said country, right? (Now, if I were independently wealthy, I could bypass all this and keep a boat in Europe and one here... )

[Chachacha]

I've asked the Aussies (Australian international shipping register) because of my other citizenship what they'd suggest, but no reply.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Chachacha

Can I still have my hailing port be my home city in the US?

Your hailing port will have to be in the country of registration.
In some countries, you have a free choice of location in the country. In others, it is more limited. Australia for example has 42 approved home ports (they are listed on the registration application form)

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

I commend you for your honesty.

Most people take the oath of citizenship and renounce their original citizenship as required to gain citizenship but then never bother to follow thru and actually hand back the other passports.

It's not that black and white. The State Dept. and US Supreme Court have allowed dual nationality for a long time.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Chachacha

Other than not being able to vote and consular services, green card holders normally have the same rights as citizens. This is the first time I've come across something where it is annoying to not be a citizen. .....

There are other issues with remaining on a green card. For one a conviction on most any crime can make you deportable.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Paul L

It's not that black and white. The State Dept. and US Supreme Court have allowed dual nationality for a long time.

They don't enforce it but you don't get your citizenship if you don't swear it.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

They don't enforce it but you don't get your citizenship if you don't swear it.

Like I said it is not black and white. You can't enforce something that the Supreme Court has over ruled, ie the law of the land is that dual citizenship is legal.

[weavis]

As a green card holder, I found issues here and there. Certain jobs I could not apply for, government work, security clearances etc.

I never was tempted to become a citizen because I did not see me staying due to a changing environment within the States.. If I was going to stay, Citizenship would have made life easier.

My colleagues who did the citizenship route, all retained their other passports.

[CSY Man]

To throw a few more facts in the fire:
You can “bareboat” charter your boat with a Captain, but the guests have to chose the Captain and it can not be the owner.

As for Documenting a charter boat over 5 tons:
If the boat is over 5 tons as measured by the US Coast Guard, it must be Documeted as Coastwise to do Captained Charters. (UPV).
If the boat is not documented, but would be over 5 tons, you can stay under 5 tons by doing a “simplified” measurements and would not have to Document it, then it would not have to be owned by a US Citizien. (I just did that on my boat a few months ago, now running Charters with a non-Documented boat that would be over 5 tons if measured by the USCG)
Documentaion is usually, as in almost always, required if the boat is over 5 tons and financed by a bank or other financial institution.
There is not a lot of money involved in chartering your boat, wear, tear, cleaning, insurance etc will usually eat deep into the charter profits. If you do decide to go that route, look into internet companies like Boatsetters, Get My Boat, Boatbound, etc.

There is better ways to make money to pay for a boat than chartering, but give it a try if you really think it is a good idea..

[Chachacha]

Originally Posted by CSY Man

If you do decide to go that route, look into internet companies like Boatsetters, Get My Boat, Boatbound, etc...

Thanks, yes, I'm looking into those platforms

Originally Posted by CSY Man

There is better ways to make money to pay for a boat than chartering, but give it a try if you really think it is a good idea..

I'm all ears if you care to share some secrets.

Re: renouncing citizenship, the problem is no longer from the US side. Not all European countries allow for dual citizenship. And there's a big difference if you obtain another citizenship by birthright than actively applying for it. Recently, when getting my kid's German passport (from birthright), the procedure would have been different and much much more difficult if her parent had become naturalized in any other country.
Our lines of work don't necessitate security clearances and the like, and as retirement is not tooooo far out in the future for us, no need to change now.

Re: state registering / foreign flag: What if I had the boat state registered for a few years, then brought it abroad, registering it in, say the Netherlands (which apparently has a quick and cheap procedure, and then I could also bareboat charter it in Europe if I wanted to), and when I'm ready to bring it back to the US, de-register it from the Netherlands and re-register it in my home state. If it was purchased in the US originally, I'm wondering if I'd have to pay the import duty or not. I'd probably not have it in Europe for more than 18 months (2 summers). It seems like an awful lot of trouble having to call in for every port in the US if flying under a cruising permit.

If the loan (hopefully) has been paid off by then, that simplifies thing a bit, I assume. Actually, financing might come from other collateral (heloc or unsecured).

I'm very thankful for all your insights on this and other threads during this learning and planning process of mine. And I hope others can benefit from this thread also.