Canada Luxury tax on boats postponed

[Dieseldude]

Originally Posted by GordMay

It appeared to me, that you linked many people not getting life critical surgeries and treatments, to the availability of gender-confirming surgery [so called cosmetic surgeries], for others.
The one doesn't refute the other.
My implied dispute was with the idea that many people are unable to get life critical surgeries and treatments, BECAUSE others qualified for government funding for approved gender-confirming surgery,

Your logic seems to be unclear. I never said the cosmetic surgery is the sole cause of lengthy wait times. The point of the matter is that while people suffer lengthy waits for critical treatments, the provision of frivolous services such as cosmetic surgery is a poor use of resources that extends the suffering of people in genuine need of medical care. Giving cosmetic procedures priority over critical procedures cannot be justified. Would a sane sane starving person purchase face make up instead of food?

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by bgallinger

Excellent! Well said. What will it take before Canadians get angry enough!!??

THey Seem happy enough , reasonable healthcare , came through the financial crash well, dealing with COVID quite well. I have several friends and relatives who live there and like the place , taxes seem consistent with modern European economies .

[B_Hunter45]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

THey Seem happy enough , reasonable healthcare , came through the financial crash well, dealing with COVID quite well. I have several friends and relatives who live there and like the place , taxes seem consistent with modern European economies .

No, we are not happy enough! Just gave up! Apparently there is no way to change the system. The politicians are trenched too deep.

[TrentePieds]

Isn't this discussion ignoring the irrefutable fact that the ONLY impersonal way to ration scarce resources is via the price mechanism?

Rule #1 of economics: "Whatever "it" is, there ain't enuff of it!"
Rule #2: "More is always better".

As we all know, together these two rules form a push-me-pull-you commonly known as the "scarcity principle"

Clearly, the individual tax payer hasn't, and can never have, the least notion of "what he is paying for" since the particular allocation of state "revenues" is not determined by him. Even so, the tax payer does have some influence. None of us have forgotten, I hope, that the establishment of Old Age Security (1927 Govt: Liberal, Oppo: United Farmers of Alberta and 1951, Govt: Liberal, Oppo: Progressive Conservatives), Canada Pension Plan (1965, Govt: Liberal, Oppo: Progressive Conservatives), Guaranteed Income Supplement (1967 govt: Liberal, Oppo: Progressive Conservatives) by "Canada's Natural Ruling Party" was achieved only because the "socialists", specifically The United Farmers of Alberta, The Cooperative Commonwealth Federation ("CCF"), transmuting into The New Democratic Party ("NDP") were in a position to manipulate the said parliaments that were rather evenly divided twixt the governing party and the opposition.

So the conclusion must be that our system actually works, however slowly. And a further conclusion must be that if any given man would accelerate the pace at which social progress is made he must do it not via the EDA's (or CAs) of "Canada's Natural Ruling Party", nor via the EDA's (CAs) of the sundry incarnations of political dinosaurs calling themselves "Conservatives" ("Progressive" or not!), but through the CAs of the ONLY party with any hope whatever of electing enough members to manipulate parliament.

But we mustn't utter the dreaded word "socialist" must we? Lord forbid that we should have "sanctions" placed on us!

Ever upwards :-)!

TP

[Dieseldude]

Originally Posted by B_Hunter45

No, we are not happy enough! Just gave up! Apparently there is no way to change the system. The politicians are trenched too deep.

Perhaps those who have their head buried in the sand are happy. But opinions of the uninformed are not qualified opinions. People can change the system if they would wake up and do something. A group of over 2000 people who gathered in Moncton, NB on Dec. 11 this year got an unjust government order overturned. And they did not wait for an election to do it.

[TrentePieds]

Diesel said: "The point of the matter is that while people suffer lengthy waits for critical treatments, the provision of frivolous services such as cosmetic surgery is a poor use of resources that extends the suffering of people in genuine need of medical care"

Fair comment and irrefutable in the abstract. So give us a quickie seminar on just how ORs are booked and scheduled at this point in history, and how you would change the existing booking and scheduling procedures to achieve what in your opinion would be a better/fairer use of the resources.

A nifty sidelight on such matters is that B.C.'s beloved "Auntie Bonnie" (Provincial Chief Medical Officer Dr. Bonnie Henry), who seems to have a far better grip on what's required Covid-wise than any of her opposite numbers across the land, is one of yours - a Bluenose :-)!

TP

[TrentePieds]

Diesel said:" A group of over 2000 people who gathered in Moncton, NB on Dec. 11 this year got an unjust government order overturned."

Ah - you mean the anti-waxer, "don't tread on me" freedom fanatics?

God forbid that we should sink to such means of governance. Once in a while it can provide light relief - comical relief - but as a means of governing a civilized nation???

Please, please don't drink any more of that kool-aid :-0)!

TP

[danstanford]

Originally Posted by B_Hunter45

No, we are not happy enough! Just gave up! Apparently there is no way to change the system. The politicians are trenched too deep.

I offer up the example of Barack Obama. He was the hope we all had that a new fresh voice in politics could find real sustainable solutions free from the machinations and conflicts of interest we thought were responsible for the lack of progress.

The issues are too deep for politicians to change them quickly and the only way for us to move forward is to elect those who promise deliverable things in a sustainable way instead of electing the ones who lie to us the most.

[Dieseldude]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Diesel said:" A group of over 2000 people who gathered in Moncton, NB on Dec. 11 this year got an unjust government order overturned."

Ah - you mean the anti-waxer, "don't tread on me" freedom fanatics?

God forbid that we should sink to such means of governance. Once in a while it can provide light relief - comical relief - but as a means of governing a civilized nation???

Please, please don't drink any more of that kool-aid :-0)!

TP

At lease you are aware enough to know of the situation despite the lack of media attention. So gotta congratulate you one that. One TV station called the rally a "police operation" to disguise the true nature of the event.


There were vaccinated people in the crowd. I met at least one. So spare us the "antivaxer" hatred. Your labeling of these people as "freedom fanatics" has to be extreme hypocrisy unless you would like to have the Charter and Bill of Rights repealed. Can you not be more original than stooping to use the trite "don't drink any more of that kool-aid" phrase. It seems that those who appose fundamental rights due to their lack of intelligence repeat the same over used expressions.


The NB government knew that they were in the wrong, and it took a large group to show them that they could notproceed to break laws of the country. They had no choice but to rescind their unlawful order.



Do you really think that it was lawful and morally right for the NB government to restrict access to food due to the medical history of people? Do you really think that it is lawful for anyone to demand a person's private medical information? Who gave you and any government the right to force or coerce medical intervention on anyone? Have you even taken basic first aid training? If you did you would know that you cannot touch another person to offer assistance without their consent.



It is because of people like you that our country has deteriorated to its current state of decay. Do you even understand that the purpose of the Constitution and Charter of Rights is to restrain government from acting unjustly? Otherwise a nation would fall to some form of uncivilized police stat tyranny as we are now seeing that these things are not being enforced.

[B_Hunter45]

Originally Posted by danstanford

I offer up the example of Barack Obama. He was the hope we all had that a new fresh voice in politics could find real sustainable solutions free from the machinations and conflicts of interest we thought were responsible for the lack of progress.

The issues are too deep for politicians to change them quickly and the only way for us to move forward is to elect those who promise deliverable things in a sustainable way instead of electing the ones who lie to us the most.

As I said before, the current system puts in power thos who talk better. Obama received a nobel peace prize for what? Actually for being able to talk. Russia annexed Crimea under his watch, North Korea became nuclear power under his watch, ISIS came to power under his watch!
Our PM is not much better, the only difference is that ours because he leads a smaller nation, his mistakes cause less damage.

[Dieseldude]

Originally Posted by B_Hunter45

As I said before, the current system puts in power thos who talk better. Obama received a nobel peace prize for what? Actually for being able to talk. Russia annexed Crimea under his watch, North Korea became nuclear power under his watch, ISIS came to power under his watch!
Our PM is not much better, the only difference is that ours because he leads a smaller nation, his mistakes cause less damage.

Our hobby job school boy drama teacher PM does not even have the voice for the job. He sounds like a school boy. Could no talk his way out of a wet paper bag. Lacks even the most basic common sense as demonstrated by the many scandals that he has gotten himself into. He brings no useful education, skills, or experience to the job. he is very good at following his handlers' lead though.


Obama was a smooth talker, gotta hand it to him for that, but he left America ripe for the riots seen after his term. These tensions did not grow over night. It seems that during hos two terms he did nothing to prevent the fiasco. On the other hand, Trump raise more support from ethnic communities than any Republican President in history. He got may of them back to work. Obama unlawfully put America into the Paris Accord by executive order. Under US law, international treaties must be passed by congress. Besides being illegal, it was just a bad deal that put American industry at a disadvantage, and favored China.

[B_Hunter45]

Originally Posted by Dieseldude

Our hobby job school boy drama teacher PM does not even have the voice for the job. He sounds like a school boy. Could no talk his way out of a wet paper bag. Lacks even the most basic common sense as demonstrated by the many scandals that he has gotten himself into. He brings no useful education, skills, or experience to the job. he is very good at following his handlers' lead though.


Obama was a smooth talker, gotta hand it to him for that, but he left America ripe for the riots seen after his term. These tensions did not grow over night. It seems that during hos two terms he did nothing to prevent the fiasco. On the other hand, Trump raise more support from ethnic communities than any Republican President in history. He got may of them back to work. Obama unlawfully put America into the Paris Accord by executive order. Under US law, international treaties must be passed by congress. Besides being illegal, it was just a bad deal that put American industry at a disadvantage, and favored China.

Nicely said! You wrote it much better then I did.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Dieseldude

... Obama unlawfully put America into the Paris Accord by executive order. Under US law, international treaties must be passed by congress. Besides being illegal, it was just a bad deal that put American industry at a disadvantage, and favored China.

According to the U.S. Senate:

... In recent decades, presidents have frequently entered the United States into international agreements without the advice and consent of the Senate. These are called "executive agreements." Though not brought before the Senate for approval, executive agreements are still binding on the parties under international law...

Here ➥ https://www.senate.gov/about/powers-procedures/treaties.htm

... Since the end of World War II, the United States has increasingly entered into international agreements known as "executive agreements." Although they are not submitted to the Senate for advice and consent, they are binding under international law. While presidents have utilized these executive agreements since the 1790s, they became more common in the 20th century due, in part, to the sheer volume of business conducted by the Senate and the difficulty of getting expedient action on formal treaties. In many cases, Congress has passed legislation authorizing executive agreements in areas like foreign aid and trade. Since 1990, only about 6 percent of international agreements have been made through formal treaties submitted to the Senate for advice and consent...

Here ➥ https://www.senate.gov/about/powers-...s/overview.htm


There Are Two Options for Making International Agreements Under U.S. Domestic Law:
a) The Constitution authorizes the President to “make Treaties” with the “Advice and Consent” of the Senate, provided that “two thirds of the Senators present concur.” [U.S. Constitution, Art. II, § 2].
b) The President can enter into an executive agreement (which can include a treaty as that term is used in international law).
This can be:
a. A “Congressional-Executive” or “legislative-executive” agreement, made by the President under authority granted by Congress under an existing statute; or
b. A “sole executive agreement,” created under the President’s own constitutional authority to “take care” that the United States’ laws be faithfully enforced [U.S.Constitution, Art II, § 3] and under the bundle of Constitutional responsibilities collectively referred to as the President’s foreign affairs power [See U.S. Constitution, Art. II, §§ 1, 2, 3; United States 11 Foreign Affairs Manual § 723.2-2].

[Rocinante33]

Its not really “ politics” to use basic economic tools and conclude that when demand is highly elastic (and a luxury boat is about as elastic as demand gets) and supply is inelastic ( boat yards have few ready substitutes ) then the tax falls very heavy on the sellers.

In a low margin, low volume game like boat building that tax is going to result in a lot of not boats, and a lot of not employment.

I would love to see higher taxes on wealthy people in western countries but taxing luxuries is the most counter productive way to do it.

On the other hand, if your goal is to reduce boaters and free up waterside property for other forms of development then a high end yacht tax is the perfect way to do it.

Turns out that governing well is a difficult, job.

[sv_pelagia]

Originally Posted by Dieseldude

Our hobby job school boy drama teacher PM does not even have the voice for the job. He sounds like a school boy. Could no talk his way out of a wet paper bag. Lacks even the most basic common sense as demonstrated by the many scandals that he has gotten himself into. He brings no useful education, skills, or experience to the job. he is very good at following his handlers' lead though.


Obama was a smooth talker, gotta hand it to him for that, but he left America ripe for the riots seen after his term. These tensions did not grow over night. It seems that during hos two terms he did nothing to prevent the fiasco. On the other hand, Trump raise more support from ethnic communities than any Republican President in history. He got may of them back to work. Obama unlawfully put America into the Paris Accord by executive order. Under US law, international treaties must be passed by congress. Besides being illegal, it was just a bad deal that put American industry at a disadvantage, and favored China.

Seems this thread has become a political fight; the kind not likely to go anywhere but spiraling down.