What is your experience after switching to Dyneema Standing rigging

[Oceanride007]

Sheath, think its good down low where shrouds are likely to get hit by tacking jib. My inner forestay with sheath has made made my hanked on inner forestay, need updating to soft shackles or large bronze. Remember with the brummel splice is real fat at the ends.

[40 South]

Hi all
Synthetic rigging is a DIY project if you do your research and take your time. I know I have done it. It is more of a mental/mind game than a physical one. How can a thin piece of synthetic rope be stronger and better than a S/S wire!

If you measure carefully and follow my tips you can get the finished rigging to within 5mm of the required length. I constructed 17 stays for my Hunter 40 B&R rig.

A couple of tips for the budding synthetic rigger……….

DO
* Use Dynice Dux, or other pre stretched, heat treated UHMWPE. DO NOT use regular dyneema!
* Size for stretch, NOT strength. This will typically require +1 size up on S/S wire.
* Keep loads around 10% of breaking strain to minimise stretch.
* Allow for shortening with the splices, This varies depending on the rope size, but is consistent within each rope size.
* Tension after splicing. This needs to be at least 10% of the breaking strain to set the splices before fitting to the boat.
* If done correctly, turnbuckles are not an issue. I have 95mm travel on my turnbuckles and have only used 15mm in the 2 years I have had Dux. This includes initial fitting.
* Cover/sheath the lowers to prevent chafe or burn by headsail sheets.

DO NOT
* Use regular dyneema. It will continue to stretch until you run out of adjustment on the turnbuckles or lashing.
* Under size. When Dux reaches 20% of breaking strain the stretch increases exponentially! It is NOT a linear progression.

Good luck to those who can overcome the mental issues and go for it!!

[hzcruiser]

Originally Posted by 40 South

Good luck to those who can overcome the mental issues and go for it!!

If that's not hot off the press! The ink has barely dried on those pics, Craig


I'm too considering Dyneema, just not sure yet how it'll run through the spreader ends.

[Oceanride007]

My rig is 2 spreader with cap shrouds, intermediate adjusted by turn buckles on Deck, I do remember rigger opening up spreader ends presumably to allow sliding. Haven't got problem with Bottle screw adjustment here only the back stay. Was always an option to re splice the brummel, but I think would have preferred 1:1.1 here.

[SailRedemption]

Originally Posted by Cpt Mark

Tune for the seasons and activities?

So dyneema has opposite reactions to temperature than aluminum. When it's cold, AL shrinks and dux expands. When it's hot, AL expands and Dux shrinks. It's not a big deal by any means, but if you tuned your rig for heavy winds in the winter time (tighter) then come summer time your rig will be even more tight when it warms up. I raced our boat last spring and tuned it harder for the heavier winds, but we weren't able to sail much this summer and fall so I loosened the turnbuckles some so the rig isn't just sitting tight for no reason.

If you are just cruising and don't want to worry about it, just tension for the middle ground. Although I think even for cruisers, proper tuning should be done fairly regularly, or at least once a season. It helps with sailing performance, and I don't mean performance as in racing, just that you may get a half a not or a whole not just from proper tuning. That adds up over distance!

[SailRedemption]

Originally Posted by 40 South

Hi all
Synthetic rigging is a DIY project if you do your research and take your time. I know I have done it. It is more of a mental/mind game than a physical one. How can a thin piece of synthetic rope be stronger and better than a S/S wire!

If you measure carefully and follow my tips you can get the finished rigging to within 5mm of the required length. I constructed 17 stays for my Hunter 40 B&R rig.

A couple of tips for the budding synthetic rigger……….[emoji3]

DO
* Use Dynice Dux, or other pre stretched, heat treated UHMWPE. DO NOT use regular dyneema!
* Size for stretch, NOT strength. This will typically require +1 size up on S/S wire.
* Keep loads around 10% of breaking strain to minimise stretch.
* Allow for shortening with the splices, This varies depending on the rope size, but is consistent within each rope size.
* Tension after splicing. This needs to be at least 10% of the breaking strain to set the splices before fitting to the boat.
* If done correctly, turnbuckles are not an issue. I have 95mm travel on my turnbuckles and have only used 15mm in the 2 years I have had Dux. This includes initial fitting.
* Cover/sheath the lowers to prevent chafe or burn by headsail sheets.

DO NOT
* Use regular dyneema. It will continue to stretch until you run out of adjustment on the turnbuckles or lashing.
* Under size. When Dux reaches 20% of breaking strain the stretch increases exponentially! It is NOT a linear progression.

Good luck to those who can overcome the mental issues and go for it!!

You size for 'creep' not stretch. Two different things. Other than that good tips, looks great! Love the sailmaker thimbles!

[seandepagnier]

Originally Posted by billknny

Cpt Mark,


Deadeyes make sense for smaller boats where you can sufficiently tension the rig manually. That was not practical on my boat, so turnbuckles it was. With the rigging loads on a cat, I am sure you'll be in the same situation.

Although I used turnbuckles because they were available, I think you can tension deadyeyes on the lee side while under sail fairly easily even on a large boat.

Covering makes no sense. Dyneema is sufficiently stable long term to UV that covering just adds complexity and cost that adds little value. Yes, dyneema itself is not uv stable,\

If you want maximum life you should cover it. My rigging is 9 years old and looks ok but I wish I had covered it, because it would last indefinately.

but it is also not transparent to uv, so the outer strands do fade in strength, but the overall effect is very limited. Think of dacron line. Dacron is not at all uv stable, but woven dacron line can last for decades. Do, however, be sure to protect from chafe anywhere it is possible

On a monohull weight aloft increases heeling forces. I am not sure the weight reduction aloft would make a huge difference if you don't heel? If you are looking for just general overall boat weight reduction, there are many easier, cheaper ways of doing it.

Weight aloft is worth a lot more than other places. It does make a big difference on a monohull, my upwind performance improved.

It looks like a simple DIY project, but it really is not. While splicing dyneema is something easy and simple, (I did some yesterday) slicing it to an exact length, which does not change under heavy rigging loads is NOT easy, and not a home project. The experts at this are Colligo Marine. Talk to them, they are knowledgable and very helpful. They are also the source for all the various end fittings and such that you need.

Once you know how far your splices set (mine about 4 inches) then it's not difficult to get the says in the range of the turnbuckle.

The biggest issue I had over the long run was creep. After significant heavy sailing the rigging was longer than it started out. Eventually you run out of turnbuckle throw, and the ends need to be re-spliced.

Yes, but you can also tuck more stuff inside the braid to reduce length rather than resplice.






My biggest issue is the temperature coefficient is the opposite of steel, So dyneema shrinks when it's hot, and loosens when it is cold which is the opposite of the aluminum mast, and makes the rigging very loose in cold weather. I do tighten it, but then after warm weather it becomes loose in the cold again.

[Oceanride007]

Something else, I thought my splices were called brummels, I now informed that brummel refers to a lock.

Mine are more a long bury or ski-rope splice. But goes in and out twice and my bury was taped up with product called D-Splicer. Yes thought about changing to a Brummel but didn't like the idea of a possible stress concentration if for some reason the long bury relaxed.

I believe the long bury is stronger than the long bury and Brummel.

[Benz]

Originally Posted by Oceanride007

Something else, I thought my splices were called brummels, I now informed that brummel refers to a lock.

Mine are more a long bury or ski-rope splice. But goes in and out twice and my bury was taped up with product called D-Splicer. Yes thought about changing to a Brummel but didn't like the idea of a possible stress concentration if for some reason the long bury relaxed.

I believe the long bury is stronger than the long bury and Brummel.

The long bury by itself is stronger than a bury with a Brummel. Whichever you use, it's still wise to lockstitch or whip. With a brummel, you can get away with a shorter bury, but you lose ultimate strength.

To simply go "in and out twice" is not a Brummel--you can do that with the tail and it does nothing. A brummel is when the tail is put through the standing part, then the standing part is put through the tail. After that the bury begins.

It's also possible to do a very short tuck splice, tucking each tail strand individually under/over a row of standing picks. It's very fiddly and time consuming, but you can have a splice shorter than 6" for 1/2" line, which is sometimes desirable.

[Cpt Mark]

I just saw this article yesterday. Although a lot more work, I really think in the end I'd feel better about using Dyneema

A New Rig for Julia, Parcelled and Served Dyneema

[fxykty]

I’ve got a 55 foot cat with a 64 foot aluminium mast. The mast has two sets of tripod spreaders (two swept back and one directly forward) and diamond shrouds to maintain 3 degrees of prebend in the mast. The forestay and two cap shrouds are at 7/8 height. Running backstays attach there as well. There are jumper stays and inline spreaders for the top of the mast.

Every shroud is wire. I’d love to switch to synthetic, especially for the cap shrouds and running backstays. Forestay remains wire under the Facnor furler. Maybe the diamond shrouds (three per each spreader) and jumper stays.

Currently we are in a subtropical climate with occasional seasonal trips to the tropics. But within the current life span of a replaced rig we are planning passages to the far south of NZ and later to Alaska.

I’m worried about the thermal expansion differences, especially given our tight rig and prebend. I’m not sure I want a rig that requires daily tuning.

Is this an issue to worry about?

[Breaking Waves]

Those running back stays - just switch them immediately. You will love dyneema there, much much nicer than wire with zero downside, and super easy to do.

As to the fixed rigging - idk, I’ve personally never been convinced.

[roverhi]

There is a Brummel Splice and a Locking Brummel splice. The locking Brummel is what is used on 12 strand because of the slippery nature of Dyneema that won't hold if just a buried tail. I use Brummel splices on my genoa sheets for a clean attachment to the sail clew that doesn't hang up on the shrouds.

[Shoalcove]

The Colligo website has directions for splicing dyneema. I followed them to make up running backstays to replace my Stainless ones. They seemed very straightforward.

[Breaking Waves]

Originally Posted by roverhi

There is a Brummel Splice and a Locking Brummel splice.

curious - you have a link to the non-locking Brummel you are referencing? Is it just the weaving back and forth of one strand/end (rather than the alternate strands/ends in the locking version)?