Water in keel?

[pmagistro]

I am finally summoning the courage to deal with something of concern. I have a Bristol 29.9, modified fin keel, with two integrated water tanks that sit above the low point of the bilge and don't seem to be leaking. When I mounted my new bilge pump last year I screwed it directly into the bottom of the bilge. Immediately, clear water began to bubble out. I don't know where it was coming from, and that scares me. When it stopped, I resealed the hole and mounted mounted the pump on a piece of scrap fiberglass that I epoxied in place....and pretended that nothing was wrong for a year and a half. The boat was on the hard at the time, with no signs of water leaking from anywhere. There is no plug of any sort in the keel. There are some cracks visible above the front of the keel in front of the mast, under the floorboards (a difficult spot to see/access), not sure what from. I have the boat back out of the water this season and will be doing more worknover the winter and want to fix the problem. So....where was that water coming from, how how did it get there, and what do I need to do to fix the problem? Thank you all!

[pmagistro]

Bumping this to see if anyone has any thoughts before I head back to the boat this week and dig in. Thanks!

[Steve Bean]

Taste the water. Salt or fresh?

[Cheechako]

I'd start with a hole drilled low in the keel and see how much comes out. You may need to open the hole you filled to release the water. I assume this is a fiberglass molded keel.

[pmagistro]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

I'd start with a hole drilled low in the keel and see how much comes out. You may need to open the hole you filled to release the water. I assume this is a fiberglass molded keel.

Yes, encapsulated keel. I'm considering cutting into the bottom of the bilge to see what is going on in there; worst case I find a void in the keel and have to fill it?

[dcstrng]

Am confronting what appears to be a similar situation on an ODay 30 -- I think I know where the primary leak is, but you can see the discussion to the extent it gives you any ideas...

I drilled 0.75" holes into where the seepage was, and sure enough found some voids -- hopefully by March or April I can begin repairs...

See: https://forums.sailboatowners.com/in...l-leak.189098/

If this gives you any ideas, I'd love to hear options...

[Don C L]

Sure would like to see photos. The Bristol has a good rep for build strength so sea water leaking in seems unlikely. Still the location you are speaking of that has the cracks is the spot in the hull that takes the loading from the mast so it can get a good deal of stress there which probably accounts for the cracks. I hope some other Bristol owners will chime in. When you say you drilled into the bilge, I am not clear what you are referring to. And then you say the water came out for a while and then stopped? And all this while the boat is on the hard, right? In any case I am with Steve on this, taste the water. I bet it is fresh water. Did you check caps, vent lines and fill lines too BTW? Perhaps when the tanks were full and the boat was sailed heeling over, there was some leakage then but not while she is upright?

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by dcstrng

Am confronting what appears to be a similar situation on an ODay 30 -- I think I know where the primary leak is, but you can see the discussion to the extent it gives you any ideas...

I drilled 0.75" holes into where the seepage was, and sure enough found some voids -- hopefully by March or April I can begin repairs...

See: https://forums.sailboatowners.com/in...l-leak.189098/

If this gives you any ideas, I'd love to hear options...

Hi dcstrng, yours is a puzzle. First, I had thought that O'days of that vintage all had bolt-on keels. Secondly your photo looked like the leading edge of the keel not trailing edge. Am I wrong on that? IN your case I think the suggestion that it happened in a yard accident or insufficient support could be likely. I am not sure, but when you watch as your boat is lowered and weight is put on the keel, can you see the hull flex behind the keel? In any case I am betting you and pmagistro have different situations.

[dcstrng]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Hi dcstrng, yours is a puzzle... when you watch as your boat is lowered and weight is put on the keel, can you see the hull flex behind the keel...

Mine is a `79, I think they went to the bolt-on a couple of years later... it is definitely in the trailing edge of the keel -- I took the picture -- but the yard manager (who has been doing these for some years) said the crack spreads slightly when in the slings (I wasn't there when he hauled it, but he was watching for it as I'd alerted him of the issue...) and he said he'd recommend to re-jack the boat in the spring to help get at the crack slightly while making repairs... the boat is a sweetheart to sail, but was leaking so consistently that it was very dependent on keeping a pump on it, so after seeing it out of the water, I'm glad I did...

Thankfully I got it hauled well before the cold-snap and it had quit seeping shortly after I opened up the bottom of the keel... But I'm going to have to make some serious structural repairs at the keel root, and then reseal the keel top and bottom -- am figuring on a 16-18" fillet faired aft (not sure how many glass layers yet, -- but several...) . The top of the keel internally must have been laid up on a Monday morning after a long holiday weekend, because although most of the glasswork looks pretty good throughout the boat, the internal keel top looks like it was never fully glassed to hull along portions -- in the garboard area -- Once the outside has been sealed and strengthened, I'm going to have to attack the keel/bilge area -- and thinking of some internal reinforcements, but one thing at a time...

[Aussie Monty]

I had a similar experience with my steel Adams 45 cutter. I have had her on stands for three years doing a refit and recently discovered that the keel was full of water! Drilled a hole at base of keel and let it drain - and drain it did. Dried it out, fixed hole that caused it - this being at the base of a 100mm diameter drop pipe that captures last bits of bilge water. After welding/plugging the hole I filled the keel with expandable foam, marine grade - it expands 25:1. Shall pour engine oil into remaining small void.

[TheThunderbird]

When on the dry, best is to make a hole and drain. However, the intake must be found out!

The Nauta 54' I sail has a deep fin keel containing an 80gal. diesel tank. Access is by means of a fixed SS cylinder with a flange on top provided with 4 pipe hose holders. Beneath, each is welded to a long steel pipe. The 4 hoses are
- to engine
- return fuel
- to pre-filter (self-circulation by a pump, as to DH's recommendation :-) )
- cleaning/sumping

Oil refill gets from deck inlet down to 4tanks in series beneath the floorboards, on top of said cylinder into which they pour out (4 in 1).

Now, PO was a poor care-taker. I found the fin-keel tank disconnected, and full of fresh water. INITIALLY, l thought they had filled water in for negative buoyancy, but l now think l underestimated the PO stupidity and negligence... Water came in its own way!

I cleaned, aired, and washed it with fuel...one year ago. Recently,we had an engine outage, and we found water 40cm (16") on top of the bottom. We sumped out some 10gal. Of mostly water.

Today, reaching the very bottom of the keel tank (with a 3/8" nylon pipe hose) I sumped out more water..in decreasing % of total (down from 40% to a 4% of extraction).
It tastes quite bitter, but fresh.

I will continue to sump out till when the water content is trivial /nil.

Can you agree with me?
I think that bilge water leaks into that tank in the connection to the SScylinder, which is difficult to reach and looks rock solid (no shaking). I cannot think of easily fixing it...

My remedy, is to clean bilge, have it dry, and have 2 coatings of water-proof glue, the type used beneath shower boxes. I will pay attention not to cover/smear the keel bolts.

Your comments are much WELCOMED

PS the bilge level, on top of the keel tank, is some 1' lower than the ordinary tanks placed under the floorboards.

I think that bilge water can leak in only when those upper tanks are empty... Otherwise intake would be against a 1' liquid pressure (said pressure being not enough to let the fuel going out of bottom tank into the bilge...).

I doubt that there may be any salt water intake...

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by pmagistro

Yes, encapsulated keel. I'm considering cutting into the bottom of the bilge to see what is going on in there; worst case I find a void in the keel and have to fill it?

Yeah. I was thinking a drain hole when on the hard might tell you if it's really full of water or the bilge layup sealing the ballast just leaked and you have a small amount just sitting on top of the ballast.
It sounds like a messy job of resealing the top inside the bilge is in order.
If you truly have water in the keel then opening it up a bit and letting it dry out would be nice. Maybe a number of hole saw holes in the keel. Then layup fiberglass to fill them and reseal the top after drying. You could fill with fiberglass resin if there are voids in there. Some builders do this from the start. Others not. Some use hydraulic cement then glass over.