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Old 21-06-2018, 12:03   #1
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Taylors 030 kerosene stove ongoing issues

Hi,

Weíve had our Taylorís 030 for three years now. It has the four-legged Hanse, burners.

We continually find the bottom of the burner, where the supply line attaches, clogged with black tar or sometimes hardened carbon. We have never been able to adequately clean this out. Eventually not enough fuel will pass through and the burner will stop working.

We have soaked a clogged burner for up to a week in ammonia. I have tried cleaning material away with a toothbrush and acetone as well as paint thinner. (Another poster has suggested soaking in a can of Coke.)

Iím looking for advice on why this is happening and how to correct/prevent.

We use #1 diesel, which is kerosene, also called stove oil, on the advice of the company we bought the stove from, new, in the UK.

Could it be the fuel? (There is a fuel filter in the supply line.)

Could it be that we are waiting too long to clean the burner? (After how many hours of use should a burner be cleaned?)

Should we instead be using the bottled kerosene we find in hardware stores?

I know many people have great success with these stoves. We are having terrible trouble.

Thanks for your help and advice.

--john
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Old 21-06-2018, 13:18   #2
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Re: Taylors 030 kerosene stove ongoing issues

The bottled Kerosene found in hardware stores burns without odor. It's nice for kerosene heaters. I've used kerosene from the pump and it's definitely a little sooty.
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Old 21-06-2018, 14:14   #3
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Taylors 030 kerosene stove ongoing issues

Yes, do not use Diesel.
Use #1 kerosene, it is as clear as water, the yellow stuff and Diesel stinks and leaves a mess.
Read this, itís 1K Kerosene you want, not 2K
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerosene
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Old 22-06-2018, 05:58   #4
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Re: Taylors 030 kerosene stove ongoing issues

For cleaning, carburetor cleaner works well, assisted with a paper clip digging around as far as it can reach. My last boat had kerosene pressure burners in the stove and heater so I became quite proficient at servicing them. Definitely do not use diesel, the burners will clog up in a matter of hours. Kerosene from the service station worked out well for me but the heater burner still needed regular cleaning every week or so. But that was on 24 hours a day , so a lot more run time than a stove.
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Old 22-06-2018, 10:08   #5
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Re: Taylors 030 kerosene stove ongoing issues

How do you pre-heat. Quite often you can get a lot of soot building up from meths. Try using a propane blow torch. It burns off some of the carbon every time you do it. I use coke for cleaning and soak burners overnight if they start to look clogged. That can be anything from monthly to annually depending on fuel and use. It is worth investing in a spare burner. Easy to change if one cloggs when it is not convenient to sort it.
I am also wondering if there is a ventilation problem since you say it is the bottom one. I only have the 2 burner stove so dont know the arrangement of your but if kerosine is short of air it will burn yellow and sooty.
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Old 22-06-2018, 14:05   #6
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Re: Taylors 030 kerosene stove ongoing issues

Another vote for wrong fuel. ONLY use clear-as-water deodorized kerosene, or paraffin if you were in the UK. I'm pretty certain #1 diesel does not meet the K-1 kerosene spec (but I could be wrong). Home Depot carries kerosene, and something called "Klean-Heat" for a little more, in gallon containers. The Klean-Heat is marketed as a "kerosene alternative" but in fact meets the K-1 spec and is deodorized. I have been using that with good results.

The carbon buildup at the base is normal, but should take years to happen - otherwise it is the result of dirty or inappropriate fuel. I have used many chemicals to remove carbon from the burners. Oven cleaner (lye) seems to work well, but do be careful and wear gloves and have good ventilation. Same for ammonia. There are other formulations using vinegar or citric acid, baking soda and soap but I have my doubts if they will work to remove carbon from the evaporation chamber. Whatever you use, fill the burner (upside down) and leave it overnight to work - patience is required. I use pipe cleaners to reach up into the burner, and especially the kind that have some stiffer bristles, but it is very difficult to get into the evaporation chamber.

I have been using my 030 for more than a quarter of a century of living aboard. Learning how to operate and maintain it took time, and a lucky encounter with someone who really understood the 030, but since then it has been a good experience. Burners should go at least a year or two between cleanings with the right fuel. Hang in there.

Greg
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Old 22-06-2018, 14:23   #7
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Re: Taylors 030 kerosene stove ongoing issues

And another vote for bad fuel.

I want to ask clarification on where the build up is.

You said.....
We continually find the bottom of the burner, where the supply line attaches, clogged with black tar or sometimes hardened carbon.

I take this to mean that you are seeing carbon in the burner when you remove it and turn it over? This is the threaded part of the burner?

Since you say you have the Hanse burners I’m assuming they are quite new, less than 2 years old. I also have them and they work very well. You should NOT have this kind of build up. I can only believe it is a fuel issue.

Last year for a bit I had a problem with carbon developing on the top of the jet, where the kerosene streams out. Over 15 hours or so of operation I would get enough carbon to interfere with the flow. But I could clean it off with a pencil eraser with ease. After a while the issue ceased. I put it off to some contamination in the fuel.

I’m betting that the “advice” they gave you got bolixed up in the US vs UK fuel name translation somehow. I would strive to get as much diesel out of the system as you can and then revert to kerosene.

Kerosene is getting a bot harder to find in some places. In some locations you can still buy it at the pump. I have also bought it in 5 gallon cans from Home Depot and Tractor supply. The good news is 5 gallons lasts a long time.
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Old 22-06-2018, 14:26   #8
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Re: Taylors 030 kerosene stove ongoing issues

I always used Shell Blue Pennant kerosene, and I never had any problems with it. Burners that heat kerosene and turn it to a gas which is then burned, and require pre-heating of one kind or another, need the jets cleaned or "Pricked" frequently.

Diesel oil is OK in stoves specifically designed for it. I would not use it in a stove designed for kerosene.
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Old 22-06-2018, 14:28   #9
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Re: Taylors 030 kerosene stove ongoing issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
Yes, do not use Diesel.
Use #1 kerosene, it is as clear as water, the yellow stuff and Diesel stinks and leaves a mess.
Read this, itís 1K Kerosene you want, not 2K
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerosene
a64pilot Ė*I have just bought a gallon of 1K. We have a brand new burner that weíll use with the 1K and see what the difference is. Weíre told that #1 diesel is kerosene, smells the same, etc. But we will see if the difference in purity makes the difference.

Thanks for the advice.
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Old 22-06-2018, 14:30   #10
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Re: Taylors 030 kerosene stove ongoing issues

We tried using #1 diesel in our primus burner kerosene stove. Got the same results as you with clogged burners that had to be thrown away. #1 diesel is NOT kerosene. Switched to odorless Mineral Spirits/Paint thinner which was cheap and available in 5 gallon tins at the time and never looked back. Lived aboard and cruised for two years and never had another burner problem. Seemed to burn a little hotter and cleaner than kerosene though that is a bit of a subjective opinion. Think I'd stick with kerosene nowadays as the eco nazis have messed with petroleum distillates and don't know that the mineral spirits we bought is the same stuff you can buy today. Recently bought some paint thinner from HD that was pure crap. Lucky I bought it to clean brushes and not burn in the stove.
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Old 22-06-2018, 14:40   #11
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Re: Taylors 030 kerosene stove ongoing issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailormantx View Post
For cleaning, carburetor cleaner works well, assisted with a paper clip digging around as far as it can reach. My last boat had kerosene pressure burners in the stove and heater so I became quite proficient at servicing them. Definitely do not use diesel, the burners will clog up in a matter of hours. Kerosene from the service station worked out well for me but the heater burner still needed regular cleaning every week or so. But that was on 24 hours a day , so a lot more run time than a stove.
Iíll try carburetor cleaner. It sounds like a good idea. These burners used a coil of screening for metering, which seems to make cleaning difficult.

The time between cleaning is very helpful, thank you.

We cruise northern British Columbia and Alaska, so we often run the stove for 12-14 hours at a time for heat.

The picture shows the bottom of the burner with the screen used for metering visible.
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Old 22-06-2018, 14:49   #12
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Re: Taylors 030 kerosene stove ongoing issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by roland stockham View Post
How do you pre-heat. Quite often you can get a lot of soot building up from meths. Try using a propane blow torch. It burns off some of the carbon every time you do it. I use coke for cleaning and soak burners overnight if they start to look clogged. That can be anything from monthly to annually depending on fuel and use. It is worth investing in a spare burner. Easy to change if one cloggs when it is not convenient to sort it.
I am also wondering if there is a ventilation problem since you say it is the bottom one. I only have the 2 burner stove so dont know the arrangement of your but if kerosine is short of air it will burn yellow and sooty.
Hi Roland, weíre using alcohol for preheating. We didnít have the best luck with a propane torch. The manual for the stove says a minute and a half, which yielded very poor results. We eventually found 3+ minutes was necessary. Filling the cup the entire way and waiting for it to burn down seemed to yield more consistent results.

Regarding soaking in coke (Iíve seen your earlier post), is this regular coke with sugar (corn syrup)? Do you then clean out the coke somehow? Is the burner disassembled at the time? We now have a spare burner, so we can let one soak.

The stove is a standard 030 with an oven. Lack of air doesnít seem to be a problem. New burners work very well and then slowly clog up.

Thanks for your advice.

[We may be passing Alert Bay, heading south, later this summer. Might we stop by and get further advice from you, if we do not have this sorted?]

Thanks for your advice.
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Old 22-06-2018, 14:56   #13
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Re: Taylors 030 kerosene stove ongoing issues

I have not used the Hanse burners, so can only talk about the original Primus/Patria/etc burners. As I wrote earlier, some carbon will eventually build up at the base of the burner, highly dependent on fuel quality. From what I can tell it happens when the burner is operating at a high temperature and the fuel starts evaporating at that point - otherwise it mostly deposits inside the burner. If there is carbon near the threads there is a good chance there is a lot more inside the burner. If it were me I would drain all of the current fuel, use it for cleaning or charcoal starter, then clean the burners and put in Klean-Heat.


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Old 22-06-2018, 15:00   #14
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Re: Taylors 030 kerosene stove ongoing issues

For starting use a Tilley wick soaked in alcohol, not fluid alcohol in the cup. Store the wick in a small jam jar half filled with alcohol, then clip on the burner and light. Very easy, no spills, no alcohol sloshing out. See eBay.co.uk.



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Old 22-06-2018, 15:00   #15
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Re: Taylors 030 kerosene stove ongoing issues

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Originally Posted by CarinaPDX View Post
Another vote for wrong fuel. ONLY use clear-as-water deodorized kerosene, or paraffin if you were in the UK. I'm pretty certain #1 diesel does not meet the K-1 kerosene spec (but I could be wrong). Home Depot carries kerosene, and something called "Klean-Heat" for a little more, in gallon containers. The Klean-Heat is marketed as a "kerosene alternative" but in fact meets the K-1 spec and is deodorized. I have been using that with good results.

The carbon buildup at the base is normal, but should take years to happen - otherwise it is the result of dirty or inappropriate fuel.

I have been using my 030 for more than a quarter of a century of living aboard. Learning how to operate and maintain it took time, and a lucky encounter with someone who really understood the 030, but since then it has been a good experience. Burners should go at least a year or two between cleanings with the right fuel. Hang in there.

Greg
Greg, thanks for your advice. Weíll go with the 1-K that weíve purchased. I will also install a brand new burner, which will only be used with the 1-K.

The burners have only been lasting a few months. We sail to Alaska each summer and by the end of the trip, we are generally down to one working burner. I do disassemble and clean, but the carbon build up has been difficult to keep up with.

If we can get this right, I will be very happy.
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