Refit finances - advice wanted

[RowanB]

Hello all,

Let me start with a disclaimer; this is my first post, so if I’m breaking any rules or if I’ve posted this in the wrong place, please let me know!

I am currently attempting the refit of an old steel sailboat, and I’m seeking the wisdom of someone more experienced than myself. I bought the boat for very cheap at auction, so I didn’t have the luxury of a pre-purchase survey. My problem is this: The coatings (inside especially) look good (shiny, not bubbled, etc.) but upon closer inspection, the paint is actually failing. So, it seems the necessary course of action is a sandblast and repaint with epoxy paint.

However, the sandblasting quote that I received is over 20k CAD. (This is roughly 16k USD). This would also require me to truck the boat to them (which would cost an additional 2k).

To me, this price seems excessive. The quy I talked to explained that the current coatings look thick and so would require a lot of blasting to remove. But even then, based on their hourly rate of 120 CAD, he’s quoting me a full month of work to strip the old paint and apply one coat of new paint onto a small 35 foot sailboat.

As much as it pains me, I cannot afford this. So, I’ve had to list the boat for sail locally (pun intended), and if it doesn’t sell, I’ll be forced to scrap it. Because I haven’t spent that much on it, neither of these options represent much of a loss (the boat came with so many extra goodies and 6000 lbs of lead in the keel, so I can sell this stuff to recoup my costs).

My question is this; does anyone else find this quote to be excessive? And do they have any ideas for how to get it done cheaper? Note that I’m not expecting someone to come out and say they know a guy who’ll do it for a case of beer, but anyone with ideas on how to save a beautiful old yacht from the scrap yard would be appreciated.

[Joh.Ghurt]

No information about the financing, but if you're willing to do the work, check out these two youtube channels, who solved the sandblasting locally:
SV Seeker
Project Brupeg
You have to search in their videos a little for the sandblasters.

[RowanB]

Hey, that’s a great idea. The only problem is that I’m a little hesitant for a few preexisting health reasons to try sandblasting myself. Still though, thanks a lot for the input.

[tkeithlu]

I maintain a 44' steel trawler. An exterior only sandblast two years ago cost me US 4,500.

Is it necessary? I'm currently catching up with rust on my boat (it's out of the water). Most rust bubbles I can handle with a wire brush on a grinder motor, followed by a little sand paper, Corroseal, and then oil-based paint. The tougher rust spots I chisel down with a air chisel before the Corroseal. It's an ongoing task, but I don't intend to need another sandblast. Navy ships don't routinely sandblast. They just have deck crews who "see the world" from the perspective of a chipping hammer.

[RowanB]

Hey thanks for the reply. I believe it’s necessary because the steel is relatively thin (1/8 inch) so I can’t really afford to let it rust for too long.

I spent a good long while last year on the cabintop with my angle grinder and a chipping hammer. It was quite the learning experience, insofar as I learned that I don’t want to do it again haha.

Also, I owe Joh another thanks; I checked out Project Brupeg’s setup and I think I’ll give that a try. It seems relatively cheap and less dangerous than the dry blasting I’m more familiar with.

Thanks again to you both!

[moseriw]

Of course it varies but you may have a good lead if you double up the purchase price.

I think you should buy the equipment and do the blasting yourself. The outside hull will be 4-5 hrs work.

Good equipment will be available for < 1000 USD

Be very carefull with all professionals. In most of the cases they are everything else then professionals but tinkerers. Even if the know how to work perfect they will not do it as it is much more work then some bumbling.

And do not trust the expensive marine equipment. A lot of it is simply scrap.

[RowanB]

Hey moseriw, thanks for chiming in.

My yacht club is rightly picky about dry blasting due to the risk of dust getting on everyone else’s boats. Plus with the health risks I’m leery. But I think I’ll try pickup a high powered pressure washer along with a sandblasting nozzle. This would be similar to what Project Brupeg does, and it seems to work for them. I don’t know if this is the exact type of equipment that you’re talking about but it might run 1k USD to get a nice setup. And if it works, I don’t care how slow it is; I’ll do the boat myself (all I have is time, not money!).

I might check back in if I get the equipment and can test it out anytime soon. I haven’t seen too much mention of it on this forum but it looks like a great option for DIY boat refitters like myself.

[sail sfbay]

Originally Posted by RowanB

...........The coatings (inside especially) look good (shiny, not bubbled, etc.) but upon closer inspection, the paint is actually failing. So, it seems the necessary course of action is a sandblast and repaint with epoxy paint.

However, the sandblasting quote that I received is over 20k CAD. (This is roughly 16k USD). This would also require me to truck the boat to them (which would cost an additional 2k). To me, this price seems excessive. The quy I talked to explained that the current coatings look thick and so would require a lot of blasting to remove. But even then, based on their hourly rate of 120 CAD, he’s quoting me a full month of work to strip the old paint and apply one coat of new paint onto a small 35 foot sailboat.........My question is this; does anyone else find this quote to be excessive?..........

Welcome to the forum!! Price does not appear excessive in my oil refinery commercial experience. If you go forward with the project you will have a good start on restoring the boat to its glory. Consider dry ice blasting to eliminate the sand clean-up, which might save you some cost.

https://ramsdenpainting.com/dry-ice-...oval-cleaning/

[RowanB]

Originally Posted by sail sfbay

Welcome to the forum!! Price does not appear excessive in my oil refinery commercial experience. If you go forward with the project you will have a good start on restoring the boat to its glory. Consider dry ice blasting to eliminate the sand clean-up, which might save you some cost.

https://ramsdenpainting.com/dry-ice-...oval-cleaning/

Thanks a lot for the input. I have no doubts that the company who gave me the quote would do an excellent job, and I would probably hire them if I could afford it because they have a good reputation around here. Unfortunately I haven’t got access to the expense account of an oil refinery...

[GoneDiving]

It sounds as if you only have one quote. Have you shopped around? I've received quotes from $800 to $10,000 just to haul out my 50 footer.

Also, who is pricing in risk? One yard told me point blank that if I wanted a fixed price quote then he will price in every contingency to ensure he does not get caught out. An Estimate based upon an hourly rate was much cheaper. Everything never goes 100% to plan but do you want to pay to absolve the yard of every potential problem?

If your health is preventing progress, can you just hire a labourer for the day? I'm not suggesting putting others in harm's way but this may be an option if you can't physically do the job but may be able to project manage, source supplies, finish paint etc.

Good luck.

[RowanB]

Originally Posted by GoneDiving

It sounds as if you only have one quote. Have you shopped around? I've received quotes from $800 to $10,000 just to haul out my 50 footer.

Also, who is pricing in risk? One yard told me point blank that if I wanted a fixed price quote then he will price in every contingency to ensure he does not get caught out. An Estimate based upon an hourly rate was much cheaper. Everything never goes 100% to plan but do you want to pay to absolve the yard of every potential problem?

If your health is preventing progress, can you just hire a labourer for the day? I'm not suggesting putting others in harm's way but this may be an option if you can't physically do the job but may be able to project manage, source supplies, finish paint etc.

Good luck.

I’ve actually sent out a few more requests for quotes over the past day. One guy figured they’d charge around 6k CAD, which is definitely cheaper than the first quote. Though, this might be a lesson in you-get-what-you-pay-for... Time will tell.

And as for your suggestion to adopt the role of “project manager”, that might be a good idea. We’ll see if I can get my hands on the right equipment to do it safely.

Thanks for your input!

[joelhemington]

Originally Posted by RowanB

I’ve actually sent out a few more requests for quotes over the past day. One guy figured they’d charge around 6k CAD, which is definitely cheaper than the first quote. Though, this might be a lesson in you-get-what-you-pay-for... Time will tell.

And as for your suggestion to adopt the role of “project manager”, that might be a good idea. We’ll see if I can get my hands on the right equipment to do it safely.

Thanks for your input!

I'll have to admit, I've never sandblasted anything as large as a boat. That said, this is a tedious task which doesn't take a lot of skill (just don't let him blow a hole in your hull) Get a pair of good face masks - the bandana method I used had it's limitations and I wouldn't recommend you use it.

[Fore and Aft]

Joelhemington your going to need an air fed helmet for sandblasting in a confined space like a yacht.Then you will need a man on the outside to fill the sand hopper and monitor you are still alive.
RownaB your biggest issue is going to be removing the sand inside the yacht after the blasting. Then being able to get a sufficient paint thickness on all those hard to reach areas. The blasting and painting are both jobs that need a fair bit of skill to be accomplished properly.
No reason you could not achieve this yourself but be prepared for a fair bit of effort.
Size really has little to do with it, the sand blaster is correctly estimating the amount of effort to remove the old coating in hard to reach places. I know I could sand blast the inside of a steel 35 foot tank fairly quickly. But put frames, stringers and an awkward shape into the mix and the time factor really goes up.
Cheers

[Mithril Bham]

I'm no expert but I have spent a few thousand hours on a steel boat. My understanding is that 1/8" is pretty normal for a sailboat. Do you have access to all of your interior steel? That would be unusual. Do you have a decent barrier coat with the paint failing or do you have major rust on interior surface? If barrier coat is good then don't sandblast. Just sand/grind and paint. Boats rust from the inside.
Our prices in PNW are closer to yours than down south. I was quoted 4G's to sandblast exterior hull on a 44 footer. Your price seems excessive unless they are taking apart your interior.
Don't try to make a new boat out of an old boat. Sandblasting is not always necessary. Good barrier coat then just scuff and paint. Think about sonic testing.

[RowanB]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

Joelhemington your going to need an air fed helmet for sandblasting in a confined space like a yacht.Then you will need a man on the outside to fill the sand hopper and monitor you are still alive.
RownaB your biggest issue is going to be removing the sand inside the yacht after the blasting. Then being able to get a sufficient paint thickness on all those hard to reach areas. The blasting and painting are both jobs that need a fair bit of skill to be accomplished properly.
No reason you could not achieve this yourself but be prepared for a fair bit of effort.
Size really has little to do with it, the sand blaster is correctly estimating the amount of effort to remove the old coating in hard to reach places. I know I could sand blast the inside of a steel 35 foot tank fairly quickly. But put frames, stringers and an awkward shape into the mix and the time factor really goes up.
Cheers

If I do go the route of doing the work myself, I will definitely use the wetblasting method that really limits dust. Of course, PPE is still needed, but it’s not as bad as dry blasting (by all accounts).

As for the interior, it’s already gone! I took it out when I bought the boat so it’s already just an empty tin can with a rudder on the back. Also, most of the metal is quite accessible so I shouldn’t struggle too much. As for the current paint, I believe it is at that stage where it hasn’t totally failed but it’s bubbling in places and should really be replaced. So if I have to leave it in certain places it wouldn’t be the end of the word.