Rebuilding older Yanmar?

[massnspace]

I am looking at some older sailboats from the 80s for extended coastal and quite possibly offshore trips.

Focusing on ones with Yanmars, as I have had good luck with them and some problems with other brands in the past.

But, it would be a 40 year old motor. Not sure I would want to go way offshore with that….

So. Would it be a good idea to buy a boat with such an engine, and immediately take it out and have it rebuilt before heading out? I have the time and tools to do the pull and reinstall.

If so, how much would one expect to pay? Are parts even available for such older engines? Any recommendations who could do the rebuild?

David
Seattle

[coopec43]

My B-I-L is a heavy diesel fitter would say if it is running alright "LEAVE IT ALONE"! He reckons once you start messing with them that's when the trouble starts.

I am not a mechanic but wonder what "age" has got to do with it? If it has been in the yacht since new how much work has it don?

I was thinking about the design life of diesel engines and came across this bit of useless information.

"The [Cummins] H-series engine began production in 1932. Its evolution would last nearly 60 years, to become the N14 in 1991, an engine that was still emissions compliant in North America in 2002 and is still in production today in South America and Asia."

[psk125]

If you are heading offshore, what do you need an engine for? You hopefully have solar panels or a wind generator to keep your batteries charged. You might need an engine to get you into port - maybe three or four weeks from when you set out. Or you can wait for favorable winds and sail in. Our batteries died the second day out of Tortola, headed to Bermuda. We could not start the engine and had to tack up the channel (about 50 times) to get to Hamilton. So? Diesels are pretty simple and generally reliable. Fix what needs fixing on the one you have and go sailing.

[massnspace]

Originally Posted by psk125

If you are heading offshore, what do you need an engine for? You hopefully have solar panels or a wind generator to keep your batteries charged. You might need an engine to get you into port - maybe three or four weeks from when you set out. Or you can wait for favorable winds and sail in. Our batteries died the second day out of Tortola, headed to Bermuda. We could not start the engine and had to tack up the channel (about 50 times) to get to Hamilton. So? Diesels are pretty simple and generally reliable. Fix what needs fixing on the one you have and go sailing.

Not sure if you are serious or joking….

Having a (very) reliable engine when going anywhere (including offshore) is a no-brainer. Just sitting waiting for favorable winds, for example, is not really a great strategy. I guess you could take that line of reasoning to its logical conclusion and say “why have sails, just wait for the current to take you in, or for someone to see you and tow you in”….and who said I am only going into port every 4 weeks???

Of course even a brand new engine could fail. Yes. But why take unnecessary chances. I don’t travel that way.

My question about rebuilding remains…..

[Island Time O25]

Considering all the factors, especially th3 desire for a reliable engine far offshore, I'd fork out some extra $ and go with Beta. Parts available worldwide, often from Kubota dealers at 1/2 price, access to their tech advice, warranty if installed new, ease of routine maintenance, etc, etc.

Also that way you can get a boat with an original Un8versal and just do a drop in for Beta, no need to dick around with new moujts supports. And sell the old Universal to soften your repower expense pain.

In 2015 I've replaced a Universal 5411 with a used 2QM15 on a 28 footer. Except for add'l work of redoing the mounts, the only other big issue was the availability and cost of misc. replacement parts. Solved it by rummaging at a local boat junk yard. Otherwise probably wouldnt've bothered with the whole project.

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by massnspace

I am looking at some older sailboats from the 80s for extended coastal and quite possibly offshore trips.

Focusing on ones with Yanmars, as I have had good luck with them and some problems with other brands in the past.

But, it would be a 40 year old motor. Not sure I would want to go way offshore with that….

So. Would it be a good idea to buy a boat with such an engine, and immediately take it out and have it rebuilt before heading out? I have the time and tools to do the pull and reinstall.

If so, how much would one expect to pay? Are parts even available for such older engines? Any recommendations who could do the rebuild?

David
Seattle

Google "Access Marine" in Seattle. John's the owner. He's been fixing diesels for the past 30+ years and he learned from his father who's been fixing them for 55+ years. The family did 2 circumnavs while living aboard for many years. So a good person to talk about all things offshore.

[Networker]

Originally Posted by massnspace

Not sure if you are serious or joking….

Having a (very) reliable engine when going anywhere (including offshore) is a no-brainer. Just sitting waiting for favorable winds, for example, is not really a great strategy. I guess you could take that line of reasoning to its logical conclusion and say “why have sails, just wait for the current to take you in, or for someone to see you and tow you in”….and who said I am only going into port every 4 weeks???

Of course even a brand new engine could fail. Yes. But why take unnecessary chances. I don’t travel that way.

My question about rebuilding remains…..

When off shore an engine is a nice to have, not a must have. I’ve had engines fail offshore and got to the destination just fine…because it’s a sailboat. Had to tack for days as well as the other poster, but that’s the beauty of sailing.

With that said, I’d just get a brand new engine if the boat is worth it and the engine is that bad. Rebuilding costs half the price of a new engine. It’s surprisingly cheap, cheaper than a set of sails! Key word is if the boat is worth it. Every good mechanic I’ve met think it’s just better to buy new, and these are guys that can keep anything alive, work as engineers on cargo ships, or fix commercial ferries, and can machine any part while at sea, etc. They like new stuff vs keeping alive old pieces of junk because the owners are too cheap to buy new.

[massnspace]

Originally Posted by Networker

When off shore an engine is a nice to have, not a must have. I’ve had engines fail offshore and got to the destination just fine…because it’s a sailboat. Had to tack for days as well as the other poster, but that’s the beauty of sailing.

With that said, I’d just get a brand new engine if the boat is worth it and the engine is that bad. Rebuilding costs half the price of a new engine. It’s surprisingly cheap, cheaper than a set of sails! Key word is if the boat is worth it. Every good mechanic I’ve met think it’s just better to buy new, and these are guys that can keep anything alive, work as engineers on cargo ships, or fix commercial ferries, and can machine any part while at sea, etc. They like new stuff vs keeping alive old pieces of junk because the owners are too cheap to buy new.

I have heard that it is not so easy to just pop a new motor in. Having to change around everything to get it to fit. So that’s why I was just thinking a rebuild….so it fits right back in.

Any idea what the approximate cost of a 30hp Beta is in these crazy post-pandemic times? And yes, I know it depends on several factors, but just looking for a rough estimate cost of motor and tranny.

[Networker]

Originally Posted by massnspace

I have heard that it is not so easy to just pop a new motor in. Having to change around everything to get it to fit. So that’s why I wa ps just thinking a rebuild….so it fits right back in.

Any idea what the approximate cost of a 30hp Beta is in these crazy post-pandemic times is? And yes, I know it depends on factors, but just looking for a rough estimate cost of motor and tranny.

I got a quote for a brand new Volvo d2-50 in the Caribbean and it was $9k, another $2.5k for the transmission. A few days to pull it out and get new one in, and you might need a fiberglass guy to help fit the new engine, but it was less than a week for labor. I’m sure some fine tuning once it’s in water. But I bet it was $13-15k all in. Yanmars are similar in price and labor.

Rebuild costs were about $6k all in including labor, if the cylinders are good. If they’re warped at all, nothing they can do. If rebuilding I’d get a new starter motor too.

The mechanics I know seem to just want to throw new engines at it, and I was shocked how cheap it was. I got new sails and rigging the year before and $40k was gone just like that.

[massnspace]

Originally Posted by Networker

I got a quote for a brand new Volvo d2-50 in the Caribbean and it was $9k, another $2.5k for the transmission. A few days to pull it out and get new one in, and you might need a fiberglass guy to help fit the new engine, but it was less than a week for labor. I’m sure some fine tuning once it’s in water. But I bet it was $13-15k all in. Yanmars are similar in price and labor.

Rebuild costs were about $6k all in including labor, if the cylinders are good. If they’re warped at all, nothing they can do. If rebuilding I’d get a new starter motor too.

The mechanics I know seem to just want to throw new engines at it, and I was shocked how cheap it was. I got new sails and rigging the year before and $40k was gone just like that.

$9000 for a 50 Hp??? I thought it would have been much higher than that….

[Networker]

Originally Posted by massnspace

$9000 for a 50 Hp??? I thought it would have been much higher than that….

Me too. You can google right now and see a Yanmar 50HP, here’s one on sale for $7k down from $10k: https://www.grafstefsport.com/produc...-engine-54-hp/

Just yesterday I got a quote for new sails for my new boat, it brought a tear to my eye and this was the cheapest option. Sails are expensive and engines are cheap.

[massnspace]

Originally Posted by Networker

Me too. You can google right now and see a Yanmar 50HP, here’s one on sale for $7k down from $10k: https://www.grafstefsport.com/produc...-engine-54-hp/

Just yesterday I got a quote for new sails for my new boat, it brought a tear to my eye and this was the cheapest option. Sails are expensive and engines are cheap.

That engine website looks fishy to me….7K for a brand new Yanmar? In Indonesia?

Anyway, thanks for the input. Makes me think about a new engine, not rebuild…

[Networker]

Originally Posted by massnspace

That engine website looks fishy to me….7K for a brand new Yanmar? In Indonesia?

Anyway, thanks for the input. Makes me think about a new engine, not rebuild…

They’re all basically the same price globally, here’s Michigan. https://calvinsmarine.com/shop/used-...l-engine-54hp/

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by massnspace

I have heard that it is not so easy to just pop a new motor in. Having to change around everything to get it to fit. So that’s why I was just thinking a rebuild….so it fits right back in.

Any idea what the approximate cost of a 30hp Beta is in these crazy post-pandemic times? And yes, I know it depends on several factors, but just looking for a rough estimate cost of motor and tranny.

If you can't install the motor yourself it would cost you an arm and a leg. New engine mounts, new prop shaft coupling, new propeller(?), new instruments(?) engine controls....

[skipperpete]

Originally Posted by massnspace

I am looking at some older sailboats from the 80s for extended coastal and quite possibly offshore trips.

Focusing on ones with Yanmars, as I have had good luck with them and some problems with other brands in the past.

But, it would be a 40 year old motor. Not sure I would want to go way offshore with that….

So. Would it be a good idea to buy a boat with such an engine, and immediately take it out and have it rebuilt before heading out? I have the time and tools to do the pull and reinstall.

If so, how much would one expect to pay? Are parts even available for such older engines? Any recommendations who could do the rebuild?

David
Seattle

Hi David , my diversion during the pandemic lockdown was rebuilding engines , mostly Yanmars but also a couple of Shibauras, a Perkins 6-354, a Perk 4-108 and a Perk Mazda …..and the Yanmars are the best to rebuild especially the JH series with slipfit liners, these liners and pistons can be bought as non genuine parts at humane prices on eBay so a rebuild can be done at a sensible price, around $2,000, not including an injector pump rebuild and new nozzles. I did a 4LH rebuild that I’ll probably never get my money back on, the genuine Yanmar liners and pistons alone cost $1,000 a cylinder, piston rings were extra and by the time I bought the bearings, conrod bolts, gasket set , a full set of valves n guides, raw water pump rebuild, a turbo, injectors and a hp pump service I was well and truly in a hole, not many folks are seeking rebuilt 230hp Yanmars.
Yes , parts are still available for most Yanmars, both genuine and non OEM, and yes it’s generally worthwhile rebuilding an older Yanmar, particularly in the smaller QM and GM series but do a full costing before launching into a project. Don’t forget to include a gearbox strip down and inspect in that cost assessment too.