Not doing bottom paint. What can go wrong?

[Kd9truck]

Hey Chotu, there are several places in the area we discussed in a PM thread with legit sand bars and an 8 ft tidel swing so if you could get a fast drying paint you would be closing on the prize.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Kd9truck

Hey Chotu, there are several places in the area we discussed in a PM thread with legit sand bars and an 8 ft tidel swing so if you could get a fast drying paint you would be closing on the prize.

This appears to be exactly the plan.

I have some “2 hour to splash” ablative paint coming in.

One tidal cycle to scrape and clean, the next to paint.

Should be pretty good.

Not only will they save $6000, it probably will take less time actually. Trying to bring the boat to somewhere that can do a 25 foot beam, waiting to get on their schedule, transporting the boat all the way there. That’s weeks.

[Kd9truck]

Originally Posted by Chotu

This appears to be exactly the plan.

I have some “2 hour to splash” ablative paint coming in.

One tidal cycle to scrape and clean, the next to paint.

Should be pretty good

I’ll text you those locations, also you will need timber.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Kd9truck

Hey Chotu, there are several places in the area we discussed in a PM thread with legit sand bars and an 8 ft tidel swing so if you could get a fast drying paint you would be closing on the prize.

Are there places in the US where this would actually be legal?

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by smj

Are there places in the US where this would actually be legal?

Thinking about coming up? Ha ha.

I’m pretty sure this is not illegal. Scraping growth off is legal. Applying paint is legal.

It obviously won’t be a sanding job or anything. It won’t be perfect. But at least I won’t have a large reef system growing.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by markxengineerin

Do people actually do this in 2023?

Yes, but it takes us two tides. One to scrub clean, then the next tide to paint. Surprising how fast you can paint as the tide comes in

Pete

[slugsgomoo]

I've not used any fast drying bottom paint- before I saw that comment, I was going to suggest that you look awfully closely at the (probably) expensive bottom paint you're going to use if you're going to try to do it while drying out between tides. Most require 24-48 hours dry before being put back in the water for them to work properly, and I don't know of any tides of that duration That said if there's actually good paint that dries that fast, godspeed!

A DIY yard is usually the best bet, and I like several good coats of something like Seahawk Epoxy Primer (the high VOC good stuff) or Interlux Interprotect under 2-3 coats of hard paint.

When I did my boat last, the guy that ran the yard complimented the process & results on my boat and said he'd love to do that level of work, but no one will pay for it because, to your point, it's a $6k+ job on a 50' boat. I think their haul/scratch/1coat/splash deal was like $1300, but you won't see the kind of results I want, which goes beyond barnacles to blister prevention & protection. I also don't see one coat of ablative paint lasting more than a season, and that's with minimal time underway.

That said, whenever we're out, we fix any tiny blisters that might have come up, disassemble, clean & lube all seacocks, check over the PSS, etc. My local yard is really nice in that weekends don't count as lay days, so as long as you're hitting it hard every day of the week, you can save a lot of money. My last time out, I think I was on the hard for nearly three weeks, replaced my prop (over $2k), did several projects with speed/depth sensors, and was back in the water for a good bit under $5k including all the lunches I bought

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by slugsgomoo

I've not used any fast drying bottom paint- before I saw that comment, I was going to suggest that you look awfully closely at the (probably) expensive bottom paint you're going to use if you're going to try to do it while drying out between tides. Most require 24-48 hours dry before being put back in the water for them to work properly, and I don't know of any tides of that duration That said if there's actually good paint that dries that fast, godspeed!

A DIY yard is usually the best bet, and I like several good coats of something like Seahawk Epoxy Primer (the high VOC good stuff) or Interlux Interprotect under 2-3 coats of hard paint.

When I did my boat last, the guy that ran the yard complimented the process & results on my boat and said he'd love to do that level of work, but no one will pay for it because, to your point, it's a $6k+ job on a 50' boat. I think their haul/scratch/1coat/splash deal was like $1300, but you won't see the kind of results I want, which goes beyond barnacles to blister prevention & protection. I also don't see one coat of ablative paint lasting more than a season, and that's with minimal time underway.

That said, whenever we're out, we fix any tiny blisters that might have come up, disassemble, clean & lube all seacocks, check over the PSS, etc. My local yard is really nice in that weekends don't count as lay days, so as long as you're hitting it hard every day of the week, you can save a lot of money. My last time out, I think I was on the hard for nearly three weeks, replaced my prop (over $2k), did several projects with speed/depth sensors, and was back in the water for a good bit under $5k including all the lunches I bought

You definitely do know what you are talking about, and that’s the way I normally do my boats. But a lot of what you are saying doesn’t apply to my boat.

It was designed and conceived in order to avoid most of the problems you are talking about.

Blisters: entire boat made out of epoxy. No such thing as blisters here.

Hard paint: No thank you. I do not enjoy that stuff. It’s terrible. All that standing. I use ablative paint only. And it’s great. Pretty much self polishes if you get the boat moving once in a while. Stays clean enough for years.

Cleaning and lubing seacocks: Thank God I designed those out of the boat as well. No seacocks. No zincs. No metal. No crap below the waterline to worry about. I designed the boat so that it could be in the water all the time and so everything always works. I designed out complexity, labor and high costs like that.

Quick drying paint: unfortunately yes, it is single season paint. But better than nothing, and better than $6000 which are my other options. I would love to use the multiple season paint, but it does not dry fast enough to do in between tides. When I had boats you could haul out anywhere, I was able to get three years out of each bottom job I did. The quick drying paint is OK. It’s not fantastic. It’s good enough. Price is quite a bit lower than I usually pay per gallon. Since it’s one season paint.

Jealous: i’m definitely jealous of your yard. That sounds fantastic. That’s how life used to be for me as well. I would haul out on Friday and they would go home after the pressure wash. They would leave me at the launch area. I would begin sanding scuffing right away. I get everything cleaned up and get the tape on there Saturday morning. Get all the bottom paint on Saturday. Pull the tape Saturday evening. Then do whatever else I needed to on Sunday. back in the water first thing Monday morning. That is how I have always done my larger boats. Unfortunately this does not exist anymore. You are no longer allowed to do bottom paint yourself. It’s a great way for the marinas to stick it to you. But I can’t wait for those bottom scrubbing boat washes to become common. That will stick it to them. Lol. Don’t even need bottom paint. Just pull in and get it brushed off regularly. What’s nice about that is it would work on my boat and any other beam even larger. All you have to do is put one hull in at a time.

By chance, where is this local yard? Do they have a good size travel lift? 100 ton? Do they have a marine railway? Do they have a hydraulic trailer? Anything like that?

Edit: Never mind. I see the PNW now on your information. So we are not in the same neighborhood ha ha

[rslifkin]

Not all hard paints are a big pain. VC-17 being one example. It goes on very thin, so it's really hard to get significant buildup. And it dries incredibly fast, so other than the antifouling properties being questionable and it being expensive, it would be a pretty good fit for this application I think.

Marinas / yards allowing DIY bottom paint varies depending on where you are. Where we are, the yard powerwashes the boat at haulout, but DIY sanding and painting is fine as long as you don't get sanding dust or paint on the ground or surrounding boats. Max beam for haulout here is 16 or 17 feet though, so even if you made your way into the Great Lakes it wouldn't work for your boat. There are definitely other DIY-friendly yards though. The challenge will be finding one that's both DIY-friendly and can haul a 25 foot beam.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

Not all hard paints are a big pain. VC-17 being one example. It goes on very thin, so it's really hard to get significant buildup. And it dries incredibly fast, so other than the antifouling properties being questionable and it being expensive, it would be a pretty good fit for this application I think.

Marinas / yards allowing DIY bottom paint varies depending on where you are. Where we are, the yard powerwashes the boat at haulout, but DIY sanding and painting is fine as long as you don't get sanding dust or paint on the ground or surrounding boats. Max beam for haulout here is 16 or 17 feet though, so even if you made your way into the Great Lakes it wouldn't work for your boat. There are definitely other DIY-friendly yards though. The challenge will be finding one that's both DIY-friendly and can haul a 25 foot beam.

DIY and 25ft haul. That’s the impossible dream.

[slugsgomoo]

My problem with ablatives is that they only work if you're going fast, and if you're underway it's easy to have nothing on your leading edges (see dozens of recent threads here on CF).

With using a high-quality hard paint, if you don't let it go all the way, a light 60 grit sand, acetone wipe down, and you're ready to re-coat.

Around here, there's only one DIY yard I can think of with a 300 ton travel-lift that does multi's (up to 30' beam), but multis aren't common in the PNW. That said, you're on the wrong coast to leverage that anyway.

How do you manage to have no seacocks at all? Outboard engines (or none)? How do you deal with greywater/blackwater? I'm intrigued.

I will say I've managed to reduce any holes in the boat dramatically, but I'm still sitting on 12 + prop shaft (3 sinks, 1 holding tank output, 1 log wheel, 4 scuppers, 1 exhaust, 2 raw water intake) The idea of zero is certainly intriguing, even if I think it's probably unlikely for me

[Chotu]

How to achieve 0 through hulls:

2 engines are outboards in wells of my own design. 3000-4000 miles of motoring so far (mast waiting to be installed)
2 generators (8kw total I think) air cooled
2 air conditioners (36,000 btu) air cooled
1 head (cassette toilet for now, composting soon again)
1 Galley sink direct discharge above waterline
1 shower pump out above waterline
1 household refrigerator air cooled
1 deep freezer air cooled

To be installed:

1 spectra watermaker (deployable sipping tube instead of through hull)
1 dishwasher (direct discharge above waterline)
1 head sink direct discharge above waterline)

Power is mostly supplied by 1500 watts of solar, of which I still only have half hooked up. Ha ha. The other half is sitting up there doing nothing. Generators as a backup if needed. They have only been needed for air conditioning so far.

Trying to think of other things that require a through hull on most boats that don’t on mine. I think that’s a pretty complete list.

No zincs No metal below the waterline other than outboard legs when deployed.

PS: leading edge missing bottom paint is my thread. Ha ha. At least one of them is. So yes. I’m going to have to put on extra coats up there.

[team karst]

I keep thinking about the elevator lift at Spanish Wells. not a DIY, but the labor rates might be attractive at R & B.

[catsketcher]

My cat always goes up on the slip clean, because I always keep her clean myself. A wipe or slight scour with a barnacle scourer or maybe light 60 grit. It is easy to keep a light cat clean yourself because you can reach a lot of the hull without diving (I can reach all of mine without getting my hair wet). I don't need a snorkel to fully reach my arm down to the centreline of the hulls. So it takes me about 1 hour or maybe 90 minutes to do a nice and gentle in water wipe. I know every bit of my boat by feel, and you would because you built your too. You don't need to see what you do, just be slow and careful. Wear gloves if needed.

With your light displacement cat, you will probably find that you can put her somewhere shallow and do the same every 6 weeks or so. Don't do it swimming, it is much harder, about 4ft depth is best. You may have to get your hair wet for the centreline. It depends on the circumference of the immersed hull section but a light cat would be close to 2 metres max of immersed hull section so you should be all right. It is super easy to wipe the boat when immersed because you are supported by gravity. It is much harder to do when on the slips. Put your money into a good wetsuit, put on a nice album to listen to and spend some quality time rubbing your boat's bum. Do it somewhere private but with hard antifoul, very little paint is rubbed off by a regular wipe.

Centreboards and rudders build up growth than other areas. You can remove your board through the case top - you need to anyway when slipped and antifoul at any time on the water. An antifouled board keesp the case clean so keep the board well painted. Same for a pivoting rudder. My rudders are not even in the water when moored so all I have to rub is the hull surface - like your cat, no anodes but I have 2 inlets to remember (toilet and galley inlet).

If the boat is beautifully clean then you could easily paint her between tides on a warm day. Lay down tarps and carry 8 half pallets to sit her on so she stays up off the sand. Wash down with fresh as the tide drops and rub over with cheap alcohol to help dry off and then paint away.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by catsketcher

My cat always goes up on the slip clean, because I always keep her clean myself. A wipe or slight scour with a barnacle scourer or maybe light 60 grit. It is easy to keep a light cat clean yourself because you can reach a lot of the hull without diving (I can reach all of mine without getting my hair wet). I don't need a snorkel to fully reach my arm down to the centreline of the hulls. So it takes me about 1 hour or maybe 90 minutes to do a nice and gentle in water wipe. I know every bit of my boat by feel, and you would because you built your too. You don't need to see what you do, just be slow and careful. Wear gloves if needed.

With your light displacement cat, you will probably find that you can put her somewhere shallow and do the same every 6 weeks or so. Don't do it swimming, it is much harder, about 4ft depth is best. You may have to get your hair wet for the centreline. It depends on the circumference of the immersed hull section but a light cat would be close to 2 metres max of immersed hull section so you should be all right. It is super easy to wipe the boat when immersed because you are supported by gravity. It is much harder to do when on the slips. Put your money into a good wetsuit, put on a nice album to listen to and spend some quality time rubbing your boat's bum. Do it somewhere private but with hard antifoul, very little paint is rubbed off by a regular wipe.

Centreboards and rudders build up growth than other areas. You can remove your board through the case top - you need to anyway when slipped and antifoul at any time on the water. An antifouled board keesp the case clean so keep the board well painted. Same for a pivoting rudder. My rudders are not even in the water when moored so all I have to rub is the hull surface - like your cat, no anodes but I have 2 inlets to remember (toilet and galley inlet).

If the boat is beautifully clean then you could easily paint her between tides on a warm day. Lay down tarps and carry 8 half pallets to sit her on so she stays up off the sand. Wash down with fresh as the tide drops and rub over with cheap alcohol to help dry off and then paint away.

This is a good plan.

I actually forget how far I can reach. Maybe using a short pole would help as well. This would certainly be a good way to get the center line which cannot be reached when you beach it.

I already picked up a pair of hip waders to try this out. They are the good ones they go all the way to your chest.