Keel Joint Cracking and Damage - P31

[HobieDog]

Hi all -

I've put a small deposit (refundable if survey goes south) on a 1987 Pearson 31-2. I only had time to give the boat a quick once-over to look for any major issues before deciding if I wanted to proceed with a survey or walk away. I decided to proceed with a survey but am very concerned with some issues on the encapsulated lead keel. Here are the issues:

- Bottom forward section of the keel shows evidence of a significant grounding or possibly yard damage while being moved. This looks to have been repaired with some glass, but is still pretty messy.

- Cracking around most of the keel/hull joint. Much of this is just light cracks in the several layers of thick anti-fouling. To be expected considering the flexibile sealant that is under this.

- The aft top section of the keel itself has two hollow sounding areas when I knock on them. These are the spots in the photos where the paint has flaked off entirely. All other parts of the keel have a dull and solid thud, but these areas are very hollow and finish is wavy and has cracks. An old repair that allowed water in which then froze, maybe?

- The aft section of the keel/hull joint has more significant cracking. There are no cracks visible when looking in the bilge around each of the bolts or elsewhere. Looks quite solid inside.

- Current owner did re-torque two keel bolts. He noted this was done because they do normally get some saltwater in the bilge, which is believed to come through the keel.

I have a few calls in to yards who claim to be experts in keel removal/rebed. Everything should be good and dry as the boat was never launched this year.

Thoughts and advice for next steps? Am I on the right track? Cancel the survey and walk away from the boat?

Thanks much!

[sailor_ed]

At the very least this is a poorly maintained boat. I would say the keel is likely to be seriously compromised. I would walk away.

[shorebird]

Its hart to tell from the pictures if the vessel suffered a hard strike on the keel. Can you determine if there was any insurance claims? You could consider having the keel inspected before continuing with a full survey. Needed repairs can sometimes be deducted from the purchase price, and you may get the peace of mind from knowing the keel, its bolts, and seal would be up to snuff from the get-go. A bad survey on the keel would have you looking elsewhere.

[HobieDog]

Originally Posted by sailor_ed

At the very least this is a poorly maintained boat. I would say the keel is likely to be seriously compromised. I would walk away.

Thanks for the reply. The rest of the boat was actually very well maintained and the owner spent a lot of time addressing the common issues on this model. He did state that he would probably drop and re-bed the keel if he was going to keep the boat. He claimed to have no knowledge of the hollow-sounding voids in the aft section...although they were fairly obvious and I honed in on them in about a minute of looking at the keel....

If the rest of the boat wasn't so well sorted I'd run. Also, he said he's flexible on the price...which is already fairly low.

[HobieDog]

Originally Posted by shorebird

Its hart to tell from the pictures if the vessel suffered a hard strike on the keel. Can you determine if there was any insurance claims? You could consider having the keel inspected before continuing with a full survey. Needed repairs can sometimes be deducted from the purchase price, and you may get the peace of mind from knowing the keel, its bolts, and seal would be up to snuff from the get-go. A bad survey on the keel would have you looking elsewhere.

Good suggestion, I'll check into just getting a keel survey first. I've never used a history-reporting service for a boat, only for vehicles through carfax. A quick search shows me a few companies that offer the service but none appear very legitimate. Do you have any experience with them?

Thanks!

[sailor_ed]

Originally Posted by HobieDog

Thanks for the reply. The rest of the boat was actually very well maintained and the owner spent a lot of time addressing the common issues on this model. He did state that he would probably drop and re-bed the keel if he was going to keep the boat. He claimed to have no knowledge of the hollow-sounding voids in the aft section...although they were fairly obvious and I honed in on them in about a minute of looking at the keel....

If the rest of the boat wasn't so well sorted I'd run. Also, he said he's flexible on the price...which is already fairly low.

There is maintenance and there is cosmetics, the two are often confused. The poor maintenance history to me is indicated by the overly thick bottom paint, the swirl marks left on the keel by some amateurish attempt at paint prep or removal and the fact that long standing keel damage has never been repaired. (at bottom forward edge if nothing else) It's a sailboat buyers market, there are better cheap boats out there.

Happy hunting!
Ed

[dfelsent]

When the bottom front of a keel strikes a rock the aft top is pushed up.
Check the bilge stringers above that aft edge. There may be cracked tabbing or other damage visible.

[guyrj33]

The swirl marks are from the power washer.

The keel looks like a non-encapsulated lead keel.

I agree it would be nice to drop the keel and rebed, but it's probably not really necessary.

Inspect the interior floors carefully for damage, especially the floors near the aft end of the keel.

There are lots of active Pearson owners on the pearson boats google group.

[HobieDog]

Originally Posted by guyrj33

The swirl marks are from the power washer.

The keel looks like a non-encapsulated lead keel.

I agree it would be nice to drop the keel and rebed, but it's probably not really necessary.

Inspect the interior floors carefully for damage, especially the floors near the aft end of the keel.

There are lots of active Pearson owners on the pearson boats google group.

Thanks for the reply. Survey is in the morning, and I'm going to make sure we start with and spend a lot of time looking over the interior and exterior of the keel. Even if the hull is sold, I'm not sure what to make of the hollow sounding areas at the aft top section of the keel. We'll see...

[NYSail]

Check the interior stringers and attachment points. This is not encapsulated.... just a heavily painted lead keel..... hard to tell the condition of the joint..... looks like lots of sealant with paint over. I had an 86 person 36-2. The joint was in poor condition when I got her. I removed all adhesive and even used a tool to dig out as much as I could from the joint. I then cleaned, sanded and put a good bead of 5200 NEATLY around the joint........ had no water intrusions. I also had no issues with keel bolt tightness......
boat does look like it did take a shot the the bottom keel though....
Also during inspection pay close attention to the jib sheet travelers.... Pearson was using rubber backing plates during this time under stansions and other deck hardware that eventually dried out and allowed moisture to damage the deck core.

Good luck
Greg