Gap filling in unfinished exterior teak

[ZULU40]

Originally Posted by Copacabana

I wonder if polyester resin and teak dust could work here, given its better UV protection...

thats a good question, I dont know ..

[Davidhoy]

Skip, for smallish holes, you can use a forstner bit to drill the surrounding teak to accept an appropriately sized round plug. Some suggest you can just tap in the plug, saw off the excess, and sand flush, no glue required. Depending on the application, I'd consider using a dab of epoxy in the hole, especially if I don't anticipate ever needing to remove the plug.

-David

[skipgundlach]

Originally Posted by Davidhoy

Skip, for smallish holes, you can use a forstner bit to drill the surrounding teak to accept an appropriately sized round plug. Some suggest you can just tap in the plug, saw off the excess, and sand flush, no glue required. Depending on the application, I'd consider using a dab of epoxy in the hole, especially if I don't anticipate ever needing to remove the plug.

-David

That was the solution for one of the prior places of rot; I borrowed a countersink to open the edge to 3/8 from the prior 1/4 size, then, once I had a stable edge, used the forstner to give a clean edge and bottom.

That application actually was one of too much material being sanded off over the 40 years of our home's life, but having plenty of wood left to deepen the bung holes - which because they were not absolutely totally without edge fault (some prior tiny rot), we used our caulk as the adhesive, having pressure-injected caulk to the screw hole in the deck, leaving some at the base, which then squished out. Prepped the holes as in the above pix, using tape over, and cutting away, the hole...

That was almost a year and a half ago and the joints have held nicely, and leaks are gone.

[Cheechako]

You just need a UV barrier, like varnish etc. people have tried to epoxy coat toerails etc, eventually the varnish wears thru and the Epoxy flakes up in an impossible mess. You can fill your epoxy with Cabosil or other fillers, or wood dust. But you still need to UV protect it and make sure the protection stays on.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Sorry, but could someone explain what a post like this accomplishes?

Or is it just to express an opinion, like "I'm outta here!"

?

Maybe...

[JPA Cate]

Hello, Skip,

The problem is that letting teak "go natural" used to work with better quality timber, and does less well now, plus your teak is really old, and I must say if those are current pictures, you've kept it quite nicely.

I agree that you can't use epoxy, and leave it natural, because of the UV degradation; and I also don't know of any product to do what you're looking for.... But in all fairness to Terra Nova, his suggestion that you cut out the whole sections where the rot and screw holes are, and scarf in new pieces, would work, too.

But, here's what a friend of ours did on a Peterson 44. He prepared the timber as you described, then used straight, clear epoxy to build up the hole. When almost cured, he took a razor blade, and cut it even to the surrounding timber. ....And then, he varnished it, with varnish with UV inhibitors. His repairs came out totally smooth, and the varnish looked lovely. But it isn't "leaving it natural", and it is very labor intensive. This guy now restores classic cars.

I think, in your shoes, I would seriously consider filling the gaps with auto body fill, and paint the teak to preserve it. It's fairly drastic, and some people who want to take the approach first sand it all back, and put two coats of varnish on it. This step allows you the option, in the future, to go back to the timber: the paint comes clean off the varnish, and doesn't seep into the grain. Then fill and paint. Paint it a color that will go with the rest of the boat. I have seen a dove gray work for the "natural teak" color; one a golden teak color, but also saw a deep maroon that looked quite nice. Imho, the gray worked best, visually, maybe because it's what the eye expects.

If it is the looks that matter most to you, the way our 44 friend did it looked superb, but it sure is a labor of love, and TN's way might be faster and easier! And you could let it go natural.

Another alternative is to tell yourself that it - in general - looks good, so maybe you can live with it for the stewardship of the boat, and ignore it, the benign neglect approach. However, I couldn't really recommend that, if you have rot in the wood, as it will continue to spread.

Ann

[ZULU40]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

I think, in your shoes, I would seriously consider filling the gaps with auto body fill, and paint the teak to preserve it. It's fairly drastic, and some people who want to take the approach first sand it all back, and put two coats of varnish on it. This step allows you the option, in the future, to go back to the timber: the paint comes clean off the varnish, and doesn't seep into the grain. Then fill and paint. Paint it a color that will go with the rest of the boat. I have seen a dove gray work for the "natural teak" color; one a golden teak color, but also saw a deep maroon that looked quite nice. Imho, the gray worked best, visually, maybe because it's what the eye expects.

I think if that was the answer, Id sooner chuck all the teak over the side
Just what would be the point of it?
it may as well be gray neoprene rubber

[OldManMirage]

Yes, the best solution in this case is to simply drill the appropriate size hole for some teak bungs. You can buy a bag of 150 assorted bungs on Ebay for about $15. Usually 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2" sizes. Drill the hole out, lightly coat the bung sides with some wood glue (I use good old Elmer's), tap the bung in firmly, let it dry, carefully knock off the excess with a wood chisel, sand smooth and flush and you are done.

The bungs many times will not last forever so when they come loose simply pop in a new one.

Yes, it would be best to varnish or protect the wood with something. And epoxy might last longer than the wood glue.

[coastalexplorer]

skipgundlach I think that what the consensus of opinion is trying to tell you is that while Epoxy resin has the capability generally speaking to take on the characteristic of the type of finely ground or powered material that it is filled with, To do so is a botch job. That most craftsmen would want no part of.

(in some industrial processes I have been required to fill it with sized aluminum powder and machine the cured block, or filled with powders of marble. Of course with wood dust there is no grain pattern, Though with artistry and choice of paint colours a good facsimile can be achieved prior to varnishing. During the past three years Awl grip has been working on a clear UV protection product, though I am not updated on their progress?)

Obviously the top quality correct course of action is to remove the defective part, replicate it in a new piece of teak and re.install. Teak is the same genus the world over, but it is generally accepted that it grows into quality timber for boat building in some regions better that others: Burma/ now called Myanmar was considered the best decades ago. The J. Gibson McIlvain Company 1-800-638-9100 claim to be a good source.

To say that the Teak can not be removed is somewhat ridiculous...Of course if you are mid Ocean and thus using the boat that could be seriously inconvenient? but typically it is attached with screws and then side grain cut plugs are inserted into counter-bores over the screws. These are most easily removed with a power screw driver and a #6 or @8 screw driven into the center of the plug until it contacts the screw below and jacks the plug out. After that the sealant used can become the only obstacle to easy removal.

Once taken off of the vessel; a router can often be used to cut a suitable joint for inserting a 'filler piece' of new material as a second class cost saving measure. Though the amount of time taken in the creative production of a router jig. or being forced to resort to the use of hand tools.(especially if not accomplished in their use) Can make the time saved though complete new replacement with new wood into cost effective option.

Of course everything said thus far about UV protection applies: If coating with epoxy resin instead of oil.

[Alita49DS]

Not being a purist, for small repairs to teak, such as holes or cracks, plastic wood seems to work quite well. Including in the sun.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rustins-Pla...70_&dpSrc=srch

Not the perfectionist's solution but a viable one.

[jimbunyard]

Some pictures of the repair you're trying to effect would be very useful.

If the 'imperfections' are larger than bung-sized or irregularly shaped, cut some teak 'filler pieces' as close as you can and glue them in with tan-colored 5200.

Alternatively, you can mix teak dust with polyester resin, though the 'glue line' will be rather darker than naturally weathered teak.

Something I've not tried, but soon will, is mixing a filler with cyano-acrylate glue, this might work in your application, though it might have the same 'glue line drawback' as polyester resin...

[MartinR]

The problem here is that the teak is to remain untreated. This means that is will expand and retract due to changing moisture content, and no wood glue will be strong enough for this in the long run. If the lamination is thin enough this might work, but not with bigger pieces.

Routing out the bad piece and replacing it with wood, which will expand and contract at the same rate as the rest is the only long-term option.

I myself, love the silver colour of untreated teak, especially for decks of course.

Bungs are normally cut a little over-size and many kinds of glue work for these. Polyurethane is a viable option here. It dries clear and fills small gaps.

[skipgundlach]

General ramblings here, in response to the many contributors who still have the stomach for the discussion (insert grin here)...

Yes, the wood in the pix, other than the scarfed-in toe rail sections shown as an example of my understanding of scarfing, is original. I suspect it's not been bare other than in our ownership, however (since our wreck of February 07, when the laboriously and expensively applied AwlBrite peeled off in sheets). We DID go back with AwlBrite on the cockpit cap rail, which is just now in failure mode, a very good run (11 years so far). A look at some of that, along with (I wasn't separating projects at that time) lots of other stuff related to wreck repairs going on at the same time), can be seen here: Pictures: Flying Pig Is Aloft - The Adventure Begins/Chapter_3_-_Restoration/Chapter_2_-_Salt_Creek_Marina_Repairs/Exterior

We're debating whether to leave it natural or do it again when we next haul out (which if our luck holds with our Sherwin Williams Bottom Paint, will not be for a few years; our first coat, now over 5 years old, is starting to wear through, showing the other color under it in some places). Unless something catastrophic happens, our haulout won't be until we need another bottom paint job, at which time we'll also paint the topsides, deck and house, which sorely need it...

The AdTech repairs, chiefly on the handrails where there were rots in the bungs (or at the ends) areas, have, for the most part survived well for the 5 years they've now been at sea. I'm sorry to say that I appear to not have any pix of those few repairs. The handrails were removed in the course of prep for a deck repaint after our wreck, and they, we think, are the source of some impossible-to-source leaks. However, as we're considering pulling them and recaulking, I'll have pix of that project whenever that happens.

My original question was really more one of curiosity, as we don't currently have any notable areas at issue. When I replace the starboard forward chock, there's a check in the section of toe rail which was replaced following the idiot salvor's putting the line THROUGH the chock as he pulled us upright and over when we had been at a 45 or more degree heel (the cleats on the bow deck were sufficient to right and drag off our 44K# boat); the chocks, of course, didn't hold, and there was resultant toe rail damage. The replacement chunk on starboard has a small check near the chock that we'll have to deal with; the same sort of pattern was dealt with (but pretty recently, so longevity has yet to be demonstrated) using West and teak dust, on the port forward toe rail, which wasn't replaced because the damage wasn't as severe. Pix of that section (the starboard toe rail and chock repair) start here: Pictures: Flying Pig Is Aloft - The Adventure Begins/Chapter_3_-_Restoration/Chapter_2_-_Salt_Creek_Marina_Repairs/Exterior - and wandering around will show the scarf joint on the new section there - which has now developed a small check (the proximate reason for this discussion). Due to it having been busy most of the time, one way or another, that chock replacement has been delayed (we got new chocks fabricated, machined from solid aluminum, rather than the cast versions original to the boat; they're far superior to the originals); when we do that replacement, we'll probably do as we did on port, and use epoxy and teak dust, as the disruption necessary for replacing the chock is ample, let alone taking up the chunk of new toe rail to do as all here have suggested for check remediation

Not the same point, but the replacement of the port aft chock is here:
Pictures: Flying Pig Refit 2011-2012/Chock Replacement Pix of the new and old chocks side-by-side can be seen in this section of the gallery.

In general, I just want to arrest small spaces of surface rot before they become an issue; we're happy with the look and lack of constant finishing that our bare teak allows otherwise...

[achil]

Originally Posted by skipgundlach

We have several spots where we have used epoxy fairing compound (AdTech) to fill previous rotted spots on some of our exterior teak, which we leave natural.

Some of this has apparently not done well with UV exposure.

What UV stable filler would be appropriate for unfinished exterior teak, suitable to sanding to the existing shape, whatever that might be?

Thanks.

L8R

Skip

Replacing with real teak is obviously the better way to go. However, if you don't have the skills or the inclination to get them there is another idea that may look ok for a small patch in an out of the way area. I'm not sure what teak dust is but if you can get your hands on teak sawdust and mix it with an exterior glue this may work. You will still need to seal and varnish to protect from the Sun.

[clockwork orange]

For unused screw holes just use teak plugs and glue them in with varnish. For bigger repairs I'm afraid Terra Nova is right,the only practical solution is to crop out the bad and scarf in new teak. But sometimes there are just dings and gouges from being used that are difficult to justify scarfing in new wood and this is an area where it would be nice to find some type of reliable filler product that does not rely on being varnished for UV protection. I don't know of such a product but if anyone does I would love to know. Maybe one could mix some type of wood dust in spar varnish, might take a while to cure but maybe it would work. I do know that mixing teak dust in epoxy is much too dark and of course theres the UV problem.

Steve.