Feasibility of electric oven/microwave

[s/v Jedi]

Besides the safety risks of using propane inside the boat, there is the issue of mold and humidity in general.

For every pound of propane used, 1.6 pounds of moisture is created inside the boat. Let that sink in: a 20 pound tank creates 32 pounds of moisture, penetrating all woodwork, cushions, clothing, wall and ceiling liners etc.

The show of support for propane stoves is mind boggling

[Dave9111]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Besides the safety risks of using propane inside the boat, there is the issue of mold and humidity in general.

For every pound of propane used, 1.6 pounds of moisture is created inside the boat. Let that sink in: a 20 pound tank creates 32 pounds of moisture, penetrating all woodwork, cushions, clothing, wall and ceiling liners etc.

The show of support for propane stoves is mind boggling

Your knowledge of propane is very limited. How much propane do you think is required to operate a propane stove burner?

A burner uses about 3000 btu of propane per hour. A gallon of propane has about 92,000 btu. So 3000/92,000 x 128 oz per gallon = 4.17 oz of propane per hour. Burning a gallon of propane creates "water vapor", which, if condensed would be .8 gallons of water. Huge difference! Water vapor is a gas - not liquid water.

So operating your burner for 1 hour will create 4.17 x .8 = 3.3 oz of condensed water vapor. But it won't be condensed, it will be a gas in the air in your boat. It will raise the relative humidity in your boat slightly.

Crack a vent if you think it is an issue. If you cook with a hatch open, it is totally irrelevant.

Now lets talk about what you are using your stove for?

Say you want to boil some vegetables.
You put in a few cups of water and cook the veggies and when you are done you have a lot less than a few cups of water. That water turned into steam (water vapor) and escaped into the air in your boat. Oh no! ;-)

Truth is that creating water vapor is no big deal unless you allow it to condense. Then it turns into actual liquid water.
The air you breath is full of water (relative humidity). The air in your boat is full of water. The only way to reduce the humidity in your boat is to heat it or cool it. Otherwise it is approximately the same as the air outside your boat, if your boat is vented.

Do you have a shower in your boat? Where does that steamy hot water vapor go? Do you have sinks and open containers of liquid beverages? All of that evaporates as well and turns into "water vapor" as well.

So your argument that propane stoves cause mold and mildew... is utter nonsense.

BTW, my sailboat is gas powered and it will explode at any minute... Its been like that for 45+ years.


Dave - living life on the edge!

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

............. The show of support for propane stoves is mind boggling

In your mind, perhaps, but you are entitled to believe whatever you want to, regardless of how far fetched it is.

If a properly installed and maintained, ABYC compliant stove seems dangerous to you, you probably shouldn't even be on a boat, much less cruise on one. You are much more likely to die from drowning in a sinking boat than from a propane explosion. There are just too many safeguards in an ABYC compliant system. Too many.

Thousands of cruising boats are equipped with propane stoves, ovens, cooktops, etc. It's a choice. A choice influenced by individual preference and practicality. On many smaller boats, propane is the only practical choice.

As I posted, you are entitled to believe what you want, but when you start insulting others for not making the same choices as you, you are crossing the line.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Dave9111

Your knowledge of propane is very limited. How much propane do you think is required to operate a propane stove burner?

As I wrote, for every pound of propane burned, you put 1.6 pounds of moisture into your boat. It is the biggest source of moisture in a live aboard boat.

Also, when living aboard it isn’t just boiling water for instant ramen… we bake bread twice a week, a double batch of granola every two weeks, a batch a yogurt every week etc. All use of propane before we switched to electric.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by rwidman

In your mind, perhaps, but you are entitled to believe whatever you want to, regardless of how far fetched it is.
[…]
As I posted, you are entitled to believe what you want, but when you start insulting others for not making the same choices as you, you are crossing the line.

I stated facts, which are still not a matter of opinion, let alone you calling it far fetched. I recommend you check my data and learn that I’m actually right.

As for insulting: I never insult anyone here, you must be searching for drama or conflict.

[rslifkin]

It's not that propane is bad, or unsafe. But more that if you can avoid propane, it's better. On some boats, propane is pretty much unavoidable. On others, it's easily avoided.

By eliminating propane for cooking, there's one less fuel type to obtain and store, one potentially dangerous system eliminated (electricity is also dangerous, but you'll have that either way), and depending on what electrical you already needed for other purposes, possibly less overall systems complexity. And depending on your electrical architecture and chosen cooking appliances, you may gain some cooking redundancy as well.

[s/v Jedi]

On safety: propane is a big risk fuel that can be eliminated and ignoring that just makes no sense.

There is another risk and that is the risk of open flame and/or very hot surfaces. You eliminate that when cooking on induction and galley fires are common enough to make that a big deal as well.

https://images.app.goo.gl/fNGm7gigUYoLCFXB6

[seandepagnier]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

It's not that propane is bad, or unsafe. But more that if you can avoid propane, it's better. On some boats, propane is pretty much unavoidable. On others, it's easily avoided.

Which boat is it "unavoidable"? I don't think there are any.

You even said avoiding propane is better, that essentially means propane is bad or at least worse, it even comes from fracking which is also bad.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by seandepagnier

Which boat is it "unavoidable"? I don't think there are any.

You even said avoiding propane is better, that essentially means propane is bad or at least worse, it even comes from fracking which is also bad.

On small boats, it's harder to avoid propane. As the boat gets smaller, fitting enough battery and solar (or a generator) becomes harder than fitting a propane locker to enable cooking away from shore power.

[CatNewBee]

Depends of your usage pattern. As occasional weekend sailor or holiday sailor, or charter boat propane is addequate. You are at a fix base marina, have often a car and refill the bottle easily.

Cruising the world off grid is much more challenging, different standards, different hoses, pressure reducer, fittings. You have to dinghi the bottles around and search someone to fill them or buy new bottles and regulators in every country and dispose the old ones. You also can try to refil your tank from a local bottle, adventurous and somewhat dangerous.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

On small boats, it's harder to avoid propane. As the boat gets smaller, fitting enough battery and solar (or a generator) becomes harder than fitting a propane locker to enable cooking away from shore power.

Correct and many of these boats are already equipped with an ABYC compliant propane system.

There is no good reason to fix something that is not broken.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

On safety: propane is a big risk fuel ........[/url]

Not true at all.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I stated facts, which are still not a matter of opinion, let alone you calling it far fetched. I recommend you check my data and learn that I’m actually right.

As for insulting: I never insult anyone here, you must be searching for drama or conflict.

No, you stated what you assert are "facts". Saying that they are facts does not make it so.

[rslifkin]

Propane is a highly flammable, heavier than air fuel. And it's stored in pressurized form. That makes it inherently dangerous to have on a boat. Now, most of those risks can be mitigated, but it's still not 100% safe. Mind you, an electrical system has risks as well, but I see no reason to have more potentially dangerous systems on board than necessary.

I have a gasoline fueled boat and still want nothing to do with propane on board. Dealing with the safety implications of a flammable, heavier than air liquid fuel is bad enough. I have no desire to need to maintain, monitor, etc. a system with a second fuel like that (let alone one that's pressurized).

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

Propane is a highly flammable, heavier than air fuel. And it's stored in pressurized form. That makes it inherently dangerous to have on a boat. Now, most of those risks can be mitigated, but it's still not 100% safe. Mind you, an electrical system has risks as well, but I see no reason to have more potentially dangerous systems on board than necessary.

I have a gasoline fueled boat and still want nothing to do with propane on board. Dealing with the safety implications of a flammable, heavier than air liquid fuel is bad enough. I have no desire to need to maintain, monitor, etc. a system with a second fuel like that (let alone one that's pressurized).

You do what you want to of course, but there's little to maintain or monitor with a proper, ABYC propane system. The propane is stored in a closed locker, outside of the boat with a vent near the waterline, the pressure regulator is in the locker so the hose to the appliance is low pressure.

There is a switch that opens a solenoid valve when propane is needed for cooking. You turn the switch off when you're done cooking and the propane is shut off. The solenoid valve is normally closed so if it were to fail, it will fail in the closed position.

The stove has thermocouples for each burner (and oven) so if the flame should go out for any reason, the propane is shut off automatically.

And, there is a propane detector than sounds an alarm and shuts off the locker mounted solenoid.

The only thing to monitor or maintain is replacing the cylinder when empty (or having it refilled) and an occasional "leakdown test" where you not the pressure on the locker mounted gauge, close the valve on the tank and come back in fifteen minutes to make sure the pressure hasn't dropped (which would indicate a leak).