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Old 12-08-2021, 15:00   #61
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Re: Feasibility of electric oven/microwave

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Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
You do what you want to of course, but there's little to maintain or monitor with a proper, ABYC propane system. The propane is stored in a closed locker, outside of the boat with a vent near the waterline, the pressure regulator is in the locker so the hose to the appliance is low pressure.

There is a switch that opens a solenoid valve when propane is needed for cooking. You turn the switch off when you're done cooking and the propane is shut off. The solenoid valve is normally closed so if it were to fail, it will fail in the closed position.

The stove has thermocouples for each burner (and oven) so if the flame should go out for any reason, the propane is shut off automatically.

And, there is a propane detector than sounds an alarm and shuts off the locker mounted solenoid.

The only thing to monitor or maintain is replacing the cylinder when empty (or having it refilled) and an occasional "leakdown test" where you not the pressure on the locker mounted gauge, close the valve on the tank and come back in fifteen minutes to make sure the pressure hasn't dropped (which would indicate a leak).
i think your getting worked up, for little reason.

yes there is little to maintain or monitor in a ABYC propane system, and generally it is safe. but that does not negate that fact that propane is inherently dangerous on a boat, hence the reason for those ABYC regulations. the point of this thread isn't necessary to bash propane its to determine feasibility of other options. your also assuming that things wont break unknowingly. fittings can have a slow leak, the safety controls can break ect thats the bigger hazard. reality is, that rare and most systems have little to worry about.

there are other reasons to try and get propane out of the boat. the moisture issue is a problem, more so if you sail in colder climates. having a hot flame is a mitigatable safety at sea issue, but still can be a problem. i think the biggest issues is the logistical issue out cruising where finding propane and adapting different propane valves to your system can be a pain.

there are issues with electric also, i haven't seen anyone say there wasn't. i think those issues may be easier to surmount than the problems with propane. this is more appropriate for cruisers and liveaboards also. if i was planning to leave the US, and was just weekend boating id stick with propane. honestly when i bought my boat in 2009 i thought electric cooktops were a sign of a dock queen. that doesn't seem to be the case today. i would say that it doesn't fit smaller boats as the supporting systems are to big to fit, but then again there are enough people here using microwaves and bread machines that don't use as much power. that's what i want to know what are the use cases and different setups that work and how much power or upgrades are they having to do to do it. ie is it worth the time to consider.
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Old 12-08-2021, 15:22   #62
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Re: Feasibility of electric oven/microwave

for cold weather sailors propane can trap a significant amount of water inside the boat. even winter in San Diego 50's-60's it can be a problem. further north its worse. there are mitigations but overall if I'm building up my systems and rebuilding the galley than it make sense to look at the alternatives.

i don't feel the same way about the BBQ grill. best practice is probably propane. charcoal or wood tastes better but there is an open flame, you have to store all your fuel, and more of a mess to deal with. propane is on and off. since its outside i see that use as inherently safer than a propane galley stove. maybe its easier to get charcoal or use beach wood while out cruising and I'm selling myself short here?

likewise i wouldn't use a propane heater inside for the same reasons. i would love a cubic mini wood stove and the idea of watching the fire through the glass, but there are issues there. looks like diesel makes the most sense with regards to heaters
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Old 12-08-2021, 22:47   #63
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Re: Feasibility of electric oven/microwave

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Which boat is it "unavoidable"? I don't think there are any.



You even said avoiding propane is better, that essentially means propane is bad or at least worse, it even comes from fracking which is also bad.


High latitudes.
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Old 13-08-2021, 01:00   #64
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Re: Feasibility of electric oven/microwave

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High latitudes.

Do you mean having to use a generator or shore power (as did Uma during their Norway travels) to keep electric capacity up? That doesn’t discount an electric galley does it?

With winter in New Zealand and a full electric galley, we’re running our generator 3 hours every second or third day - just not enough insolation even on sunny days to make up for the draws. We will be doubling our solar panels when we put in a hard top bimini, but for now the 1kw of panels generates only 1.5-2.5kwh per day.

When we took out our propane system the bottles, regulator, solenoid (manual) and appliances were fine, but of the 6 lengths of rubber hose only two were dated in service and one, that was lead behind the fridge, was over 6 years overdue for replacement!! That I think is a hidden danger.
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Old 13-08-2021, 05:48   #65
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Re: Feasibility of electric oven/microwave

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No, you stated what you assert are "facts". Saying that they are facts does not make it so.
My facts are actually facts, based on the laws of nature. You claim that what I write is nonsense but you have nothing to back it up, just your opinion.

So it’s your opinion vs laws of nature, guess who is right?

https://www.tinywoodstove.com/how-mu...opane-produce/
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Old 14-08-2021, 17:20   #66
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Re: Feasibility of electric oven/microwave

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Originally Posted by fxykty View Post
Do you mean having to use a generator or shore power (as did Uma during their Norway travels) to keep electric capacity up? That doesn’t discount an electric galley does it?

With winter in New Zealand and a full electric galley, we’re running our generator 3 hours every second or third day - just not enough insolation even on sunny days to make up for the draws. We will be doubling our solar panels when we put in a hard top bimini, but for now the 1kw of panels generates only 1.5-2.5kwh per day.

When we took out our propane system the bottles, regulator, solenoid (manual) and appliances were fine, but of the 6 lengths of rubber hose only two were dated in service and one, that was lead behind the fridge, was over 6 years overdue for replacement!! That I think is a hidden danger.
I meant that in high latitudes, off season, it would be very difficult to get by without propane for cooking while cruising. By cruising I mean regularly moving along, anchoring out a lot, with only occasional marina visits.

With a lot of wind power it might be possible to get by. Depends on location, season and how much wind capacity you had.
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Old 15-08-2021, 12:59   #67
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Re: Feasibility of electric oven/microwave

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Originally Posted by Adelie View Post
I meant that in high latitudes, off season, it would be very difficult to get by without propane for cooking while cruising. By cruising I mean regularly moving along, anchoring out a lot, with only occasional marina visits.



With a lot of wind power it might be possible to get by. Depends on location, season and how much wind capacity you had.

Your claim of ‘very difficult’ seems to exclude the use of a generator. Having one changes the ‘very difficult’ to ‘not at all difficult’. But agree that it is rather annoying to run the generator so much - we’re adding a second wind generator and more solar sometime soonish, but also heading to the tropics.
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Old 15-08-2021, 14:13   #68
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Re: Feasibility of electric oven/microwave

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Originally Posted by Adelie View Post
I meant that in high latitudes, off season, it would be very difficult to get by without propane for cooking while cruising. By cruising I mean regularly moving along, anchoring out a lot, with only occasional marina visits.

With a lot of wind power it might be possible to get by. Depends on location, season and how much wind capacity you had.

Agreed, I would add diesel heating to that as well. Even a simple blown air diesel heating changes the humidity on board making life so much more comfortable. From a cold boat we find it takes 24 hours to really warm the boat up and dry things out. If shore power is available a dehumidifier also makes a huge difference once temperatures drop below 10c.

Space and cost makes gas cooking simple and effective in higher latitudes. At £22 for 4.5kgs of gas and available everywhere means its a popular choice particularly on smaller yachts. A portable petrol genny wasn't really the best solution so we sold it and went solar and diesel heating.

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