Edson Binnacle- Cables almost cut themselves

[zachduckworth]

Originally Posted by wholybee

Yes, eye splice over a thimble on the chain end. Knot of your choice on the quadrant end, which couldn't be spliced at least on my boat. I used 2 turns and 2 half hitches. But for sure you will need to change your pulleys if you switch to dyneema, as the wear from having wire run through them will chafe the dyneema. I replaced those too, as my mounting plate was rusted and about to break. And not all dyneema is equal. The cheaper stuff is plenty strong enough, but you will need to adjust out the slack quite often as it creeps the first couple thousand miles.

That is very tempting.

[stormalong]

I have rebuilt my Edson steering twice over the 32 years I have had the boat.

Edson can supply you with an insert to go between the steering wheel axle bearing and the aluminum bore. That is a common wear point. You might need to have a machine shop re-bore the hole to make it round and provide a custom insert.

Do not try to re-use the sprocket chain. It is more worn than you think or can see. I have had that chain break, repaired with a spare master link and have it break somewhere else. The only thing that you may be able to re-use is the bronze ends that connect the chain to the cable and the cable clips. That chain is available from McMaster-Carr. The wire will outlive the chain if it is installed right. But replace both and have a spare assembly on board.

While you have it apart check the axles on the turning blocks under the pedestal. Mine were bronze and badly worn. I replaced them with SS clevis pins drilled in a way that they could be lubed with a grease gun via zerk fittings.

As for removing the SS bolts from the aluminum you already have good advice. With time and patience you should be able to get them out. Don't twist the bolt off. When re-assembling be sure to use Duralac of Tefgel or you will have the same problem again in a few years.

Good thing this happened late in the season - you will have all winter to sort is out.

PS. Some Stainless is magnetic and could affect your compass. Edson will sell you non-magnetic stainless screws for a ridiculous price or you can go with 316 SS or brass or bronze.

[zachduckworth]

Here's a picture from after the race last week when I thought I felt something weird in the steering. I thought I felt something weird in the steering, as did another, more experienced sailor on board. Afterwards I crawled into the lazarette and took sme pictures while hanging upside down in there.

Are these the bronze pulleys and aluminum base plate we've discussed?
Those bolts holding the pulleys in place look completely frozen. To get those off I think I would probably just take off the pedestal itself. But if you look, those nuts are going to be hard to get to no matter what. And almost certainly seized up.

[stormalong]

Those are aluminum bolts. Half inch flat head machine screws actually. They hold everything together. I drilled mine out but ask Edson first - I don't think you can get replacements anymore.

Yours don't look too bad. On my '44 it was hell to get the new ones in. On a 30 footer it is probably much worse.

On my second rebuild I had the bolts welded to the pedestal. That made it much easier to re-install and looks better too. A little filler, a professional paint job and you can't tell there are any bolts there. A lot easier to put it back together when you don't need someone above to hold the screws in place.

[wholybee]

Yes, those pulleys. It looks like you have the older steel plate. From what I can tell, it doesn't look too bad, but take a close look. If there is rust, buy the new version(expensive).

[Manateeman]

Heat the aluminum. New chain. The bronze pulley had a replacement bushing in some models. Fit new bronze axle not stainless. Replace every part you can including the brake and the steering axle parts. Tef-Gel.

[5BTM]

An opportunity to get rid of the wheel and go to tiller steering.

[zachduckworth]

Yes, upon second thought I’m going to get a new chain and keep old one as a back up.
I watched the Edson how to videos. Somewhat hilariously the one that discusses those screws says, “if you are having difficulty removing them contact Edson for advice.”

The video on the idler was useful. Today I’m going to try to remove the wheels to inspect them, and to see if I can remove the idler assembly easily (relative term). I may end up replacing thecidler with a new one, and the sheaves at the very least.

[catsketcher]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

No. That is galvanic corrosion.

Ouch, I should know that

[psk125]

On our 1981 J/36 we had chafe issues with the sheaves underneath the pedestal. We also had metal shavings under them. The wire got misaligned and wore their edges of razor-thin and razor sharp. We luckily caught the problem before any failure and replaced the sheaves. Poking around under the cockpit isn't fun, but sometimes it's a good thing to do.

[zachduckworth]

Update -

So, After two days of work all four screws are still seized in the pedestal in some level of destruction. I’ve decided to remove the pedestal and move to a tiller. I have a guy coming out this week to figure out how to install the engine controls since they’ll need to go into the cockpit bulkhead now.

The plan with the pedestal is to remove it, have the screws machined out at a shop, and then sell the thing for $400 or whatever i can get for it to defray the cost of losing it. I’d really wanted a tiller anyway and the $900+ price tag to fix the wheel put it over the edge. For the record the bronze idler wheels were in good shape when I pulled them. No issues at all. I’m glad Islander designed a tiller option into the boat - it made the decision a lot easier.

[hpeer]

Good for you. Simpler = better. More enjoyment.

And now you can get a Pelagic AP if you desire.

[CuChulainn]

Been there done that on my '86 C&C 33. I needed to drop the rudder and found that the radial drive wheel (quadrant) bolts were seized (stainless in aluminum casting.) Found that the wrong cable/chain had been installed by a PO/boat yard. Ended up cutting off the one bolt in the binnacle you are talking about, drilling out the holes and installing stainless thread inserts (helicoil). AND got new bolts from Edson, titanium I think, supposedly do not corrode. Also bought the correct chain/cable, new radial drive wheel ( because I had to cut that off too ) from Edson. Expensive but much cheaper than a new binnacle and I was pretty much committed to the same system. Edson has parts diagrams for pretty much every boat their systems were installed on so you can easily get the correct parts. Bottom line preventative maintenance, preventive maintenance! Lubrication of the cables is very important they even sell a special lubricant although they used to recommend engine oil because everyone has it.

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by zachduckworth

I initially thought that this must have been an error by a PO, and that the chains sawed through each other because they were crossed up. But according to someone on here who posted in another thread on Edson pedestals, this is actually how they're designed, and the crossing is what causes the boat to turn to port when you turn the wheel to port, and vice versa. The reason for this being that after exiting the hole at the base of the pedestal the cables pass through a pulley and then around a quadrant that is fitted over the rudder post. By being crossed they pull the quadrant in the correct directly to cause the rudder to turn the boat in the same direction as the wheel is turned. If they exited on the same side as the chain (and attached to the same side of the quadrant) the wheel would work more like a tiller.

The crossing of the cables inside the pedestal is not by design of edson, its an installer issue. They've crossed the lines to reverse the pull because the quadrant is likely installed on the aft face of the rudder post. And didn't want the expense of the extra sheaves required to route the cables.

Without addressing the routing, switching to new cables (even dyneema) isn't going to solve the issue.

[Nicholson58]

Good catch finding this while still possible to get home.

Your local rigger can make up a new and spare chain-cable assembly. If the old chain is OK then use that for the spare. Grease everything including the bare cables.

My opinion, the cables should not touch. Figure how to move a pulley. At the very least, install a Nylatron rub sheet between the cables.

Be sure to lubricate the pins on those bronze wheels.