Crack in Keel for boat under contract

[gulfislandfred]

The owner should not object to carefully grinding along the line of the crack, with a dremel tool, or a carbide burr in a drill, or die grinder. See if there's, a keel bolt, or fairing compound, or a void behind. That's what the owner will need to do, to fair the keel, anyway.


The surveyor should require the spot to be ground down, or he will call it a defect, with unknown cost to repair. That's a deal breaker.


I have seen surveyors say that about localized blisters, and what appeared to be repairs on boat bottoms, one that I was selling, and one that a friend was buying. In both cases, grinding revealed good glass underneath. Epoxy, then bottom paint was applied, everyone happy.



My vote is a keel bolt close to the surface, or a fairing compound issue. but that's an opinion. You need actual data.
If it is a keel bolt, and it's a lead keel, it's not too big a job to fix. I don't know about if it's cast iron.

[Tonali99]

The boat is/was in the Cheasapeak where it gets pretty cold now and then.
Was the boat hauled during the winter months?
Has water entered the keel somewhere?
From my perspective it could be a crack from freezing water.

[blcote]

Originally Posted by CassidyNZ

Surely the easy answer is to say to the seller “I want to buy your boat and if you fix this I will buy it.” If he says no, then you say no. Quite uncomplicated for me.

If you’re not sure that you’ll buy the boat once it’s fixed, it wouldn’t be under contract, would it?

I agree 100%

[man]

That crack reminds me of a freeze damage in already keel: water found its way along a keelboat from the bilge into the keel along a bolt. Extreme frost then broke the lead keel open. I think think the crack needs to be drilled at the bottom so the water can be released and then the keel bolts need to be sealed.

[CarlF]

This is becoming the proverbial "mountain out of a mole hill".

This is not another Cheeki Rafiki (e.g. the keel is not going to fall off)

You have a crack in a piece of metal and a quote to fix it ($2500) from a guy who knows the boat. Fixing a crack is never very expensive once you know it's there. And the crack has been there for at least 5 years so it's not likely to turn into something worse all of a sudden.

You could even drill some new holes and fit additional keel bolts if you were worried (but I wouldn't be)

Did the $2500 repair include dropping the keel? That would be a good idea in any case with a boat with this thin a keel to check for problems.

As for the cost - I'd certainly ask for a price reduction of $2500. Maybe you'll get it. Maybe you'll get half. But $2500 doesn't seem like enough to lose a boat that otherwise meets your needs.

"The perfect is the enemy of the good" - Voltaire

[Notyetsinking]

So an update: I was able to move forward with the sale of the boat. I requested a price adjustment according to the keel and a couple other things. Hopefully will be closing by Monday, and I am very excited with how things have moved forward. Once everything is finalized, I think I will be obligated to reveal the boat

[BluesII]

Given all the attention this Crack-in-Keel got, I am anxious to learn what was lurking behind it once the boat sale is finalized and repairs are done. Overall the thread was a good read and I learned a lot about keels and lead keels in particular. If I were to place a bet, I'd say that the crack is the result of water in the bilge seeping along the first keel bolt and then freezing. If that is the case, then the lead itself will have opened up also. Whether the keel bolt would need to be replaced remains to be seen. If that is the case the Mars Metal Company may be the place to go.

https://marsmetal.com/wp-content/upl...BBM-061615.pdf

https://www.sail-world.com/news/2259...t-replacements

[BluesII]

There's an excellent article in sail-world on keel bolt replacement in lead cast keels.

https://www.sailmagazine.com/diy/how...e-is-your-keel

[Shaneesprit]

Tell the owner to get it repaired or walk away, even if you have to offer a cash amount his way, say the price of it being very cosmetic, anymore than that the owner would have to pay. Or you walk and loose a little money instead of a lot

[lvictorlucas]

Originally Posted by Shaneesprit

Tell the owner to get it repaired or walk away, even if you have to offer a cash amount his way, say the price of it being very cosmetic, anymore than that the owner would have to pay. Or you walk and loose a little money instead of a lot

The simple great answer.

[Notyetsinking]

Small update:
The boat went for a sea trial and I went to visit it about a week after (Saturday) and was looking for any signs of rust or anything to indicate that water had reached the bolts. There was nothing. Given this has existed for a while, I am heavily leaning toward just filing with epoxy and seeing how it plays out. If this is as dumb as it sounds, I will reconsider. However, I am looking at replacing the keel entirely within the next year or two, so I am really trying to put off any intense repair with the current Keel.

[Happ]

Originally Posted by Notyetsinking

Small update:
The boat went for a sea trial and I went to visit it about a week after (Saturday) and was looking for any signs of rust or anything to indicate that water had reached the bolts. There was nothing. Given this has existed for a while, I am heavily leaning toward just filing with epoxy and seeing how it plays out. If this is as dumb as it sounds, I will reconsider. However, I am looking at replacing the keel entirely within the next year or two, so I am really trying to put off any intense repair with the current Keel.

Boats are inherently high maintenance items to begin with. This could be just cosmetic and it could be something costly. I just read an article about a shroud letting go on a boat. No big deal as he was just hanging a sail on the baby stay when it happened. Rust had formed in the swage because no air was drying it out. You could be sailing along and a keel bolt could break.

This is a high production boat. There must be others available. Why would you want to buy a boat with a potentially dangerous situation? A new keel? Have you priced that out? In the mid 1980’s I was the Captain of a boat that the owner had previously grounded which loosened the keel boss. He had slapped some glass over it. During a storm the repair let go. We saved the boat and had the boat properly repaired. It cost $22,000!

Sounds to me like the brokers have you so in love with the boat and are playing you. I suspect the owner really knows what’s going on and is just keeping his mouth shut hoping to get rid of the boat instead of filing an insurance claim.

BUYER BEWARE!!!!

[chris95040]

Originally Posted by Pandor

Keel bolts don’t go down nearly that far.

Mine do.

[Notyetsinking]

Originally Posted by Happ

Boats are inherently high maintenance items to begin with. This could be just cosmetic and it could be something costly. I just read an article about a shroud letting go on a boat. No big deal as he was just hanging a sail on the baby stay when it happened. Rust had formed in the swage because no air was drying it out. You could be sailing along and a keel bolt could break.

This is a high production boat. There must be others available. Why would you want to buy a boat with a potentially dangerous situation? A new keel? Have you priced that out? In the mid 1980’s I was the Captain of a boat that the owner had previously grounded which loosened the keel boss. He had slapped some glass over it. During a storm the repair let go. We saved the boat and had the boat properly repaired. It cost $22,000!

Sounds to me like the brokers have you so in love with the boat and are playing you. I suspect the owner really knows what’s going on and is just keeping his mouth shut hoping to get rid of the boat instead of filing an insurance claim.

BUYER BEWARE!!!!

Assumptions are useful when accurate, however yours are not. The final agreed on price of the boat is 32k less than the original asking price. Maintenance is clearly not being ignored, again repeating my intention to replace the keel with a custom torpedo bulb. The bolt in question is not the main structural one, only a small support likely there for load assistance and distribution. It has been looked at by several professionals, with all seeming to agree that it is not a major issue. The issue was reported in the previous survey from 2017, which I have read, and the problem does not appear to have degraded over the course of the last 4 years.
This is NOT a production boat. There were 5 or so built(not sure of the exact number).

[Notyetsinking]

Spoke with Mars Keels, and though they were hesitant to make any definitive claims, they said it was likely frost damage. If I were expecting to keep the keel long term I’d likely go for a full repair, but for a short term thing is filling with epoxy an ok fix? Or is this something that does really need a full diagnosis immediately?