Awlgrip - Where did I go wrong?

[neilpride]

White top coat white 545, dark colors use the grey

[neilpride]

By spray you can actually put 2 or 3 full coats of 545 once... no sanding between coats..

[s/v Jedi]

I once had a roller that caused fish eyes. I rolled it on a piece of carton, put new paint on and it was fine after that. I now clean rollers by rolling them over 3M blue masking tape. Then after rolling in the paint tray, I first roll on a piece of carton or paper to check result and get rid of any contamination.


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[takeabow40]

Originally Posted by Wind River

After a month of sanding, epoxy coating, sanding, epoxy coating, sanding........... I thought I had my bowsprit ready for paint. I mixed the Awgrip 2:1 (topcoat to converter) and added 10% brushing reducer and mixed some more. I began to roll it on with a foam roller and I thought I was looking into a school of sardines there were so many fish eye's!

It's all in the prep they say and this is what I did.

After stripping the old paint with a heat gun, scraper and a sander, I continued to sand to nice clean wood. I drilled out and filled every screw hole with West Epoxy. I applied West Epoxy with 205 Slow hardener to the entire bowsprit. After it set up, I sanded it and applied another coat doing this 3 times. I then read that I should have been a washing the blush off before sanding for the next coat. (I thought sanding would take it off) I then applied another coat and washed the last coat with water and scotchbrite pad before sanding with 120 grit. I wiped down the surface with Acetone between all coats.

Now, having given a bowsprit probably more attention than it deserves, I am ready to paint. I blew off the all the dust as I wiped with a dry paper towel. I then wiped down the entire surface with Acetone using the two rag method. I mixed up my paint and just before applying it I lightly wiped the entire surface with an Awlgrip brand tack rag.

Where did I go wrong and what do I do now?
Sand back to bare wood and start over?
Could not cleaning the blush before sanding, contaminate the surface? (although I did clean before sanding on the last coat)
The topcoat was purchased a week ago but the converter and brushing reducer were left over from a project about 18 months ago. Do they go bad?

DEFINITELY the catalyst most are only good for 12 months if unopened once opened you have maybe 6 months if more than half a kit I use 2 pack everyday and majority of mixing instructions require you to mix complete kit how did you end up with part catalyst ?

[Zach]

Hey Wind River...

This is what I was trying to say about sanding.

This isn't my picture, but one google found...

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/IMG_0497.jpg

See how the epoxy in this picture has turned milky white? The shiny spots paint won't stick to and won't lay out because of surface tension. Your picture, is almost all shiny with very few areas that are milky or opaque in color. Sanded epoxy with 120 grit, you shouldn't be able to make out much of the grain of the wood through it.

[Wind River]

Zach - Mine looked just like that before the wiping down, although I will give another sanding before the next try.

I talked to the Awlgrip rep about this problem and he made a few suggestions and explanations. Some are the same that were already discussed here.

He said that LPU paints don't grip the surface they are applied to very well. He had a name for this that escapes me. Their 545 epoxy primer is supposed be able to grip the substrate much better than the paint itself but the LPU paint grips to the epoxy primer much better.

As far as the wipe down with Acetone, he said the problem with it is that it evaporates too quickly and by the time you get there with the clean rag it has already evaporated and still leaves the "mud" as he called it. Likely this is the cause of the fish eye's.

He recommended their T0115 wipe down solvent but also suggested the the T0031 brushing reducer that I already had would work well too and it is very slow to evaporate.

He has not heard of paper towels causing this problem, so I am probably pretty safe there but they are not likely link free and would require a tack cloth to remove it.

He agreed that 36-60 grit for a topcoat was excessive. I am sending him the link to their literature. Maybe that will be revised.

This is not much different than many of you have suggested and what is in their literature. In many cases it is exactly the same. He said the DIY'ers overthink this process. When you watch a professional use this, you think they are being sloppy and careless, the difference is that they know what really matters.

[s/v Jedi]

The Awlgrip application guide does not say to use 36-60 grit before topcoating. For brush/roll it says 280-400 grit. RTFM.
The only places 36-60 grit is mentiined is about grinding on raw fiberglass or peeling gelcoat etc. before the first coat of primer goes on.


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[Wind River]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

The Awlgrip application guide does not say to use 36-60 grit before topcoating. For brush/roll it says 280-400 grit. RTFM.
The only places 36-60 grit is mentiined is about grinding on raw fiberglass or peeling gelcoat etc. before the first coat of primer goes on.


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Thanks Nick,
Apparently a remedial reading comprehension class should be in my future. Or at least have only one page of Awlgrip information opened on my computer at one time so I don't confuse myself (and others) with what I think I am reading.

For those that missed it, the link I gave sighting Awlgrips manual stating that 36-60 grit should be used for top coat prep was actually for the primer on raw resin (which is what I have) not for top coat. I thought it made sense to do this with primer and stated so, but I believed I was reading from the top coat section when I was actually reading from the primer section.

I think I should coin a new acronym. Instead of RTFM it can be RAUTFM (Read And Understand The F***ing Manual)

I wanted this thread to be helpful to myself and others so this is what I have learned from this little endeavor.
There may be shortcuts or substitutes when using Awlgrip but unless you have the experience to know what they are, RAUTFM and do/use what it says. Substitute materials and processes at you own risk.

Thanks everyone for your input. I know the answer to my original question now.

[Three Sisters]

Originally Posted by Wind River

Thanks Nick,
Apparently a remedial reading comprehension class should be in my future. Or at least have only one page of Awlgrip information opened on my computer at one time so I don't confuse myself (and others) with what I think I am reading.

For those that missed it, the link I gave sighting Awlgrips manual stating that 36-60 grit should be used for top coat prep was actually for the primer on raw resin (which is what I have) not for top coat. I thought it made sense to do this with primer and stated so, but I believed I was reading from the top coat section when I was actually reading from the primer section.

I think I should coin a new acronym. Instead of RTFM it can be RAUTFM (Read And Understand The F***ing Manual)

I wanted this thread to be helpful to myself and others so this is what I have learned from this little endeavor.
There may be shortcuts or substitutes when using Awlgrip but unless you have the experience to know what they are, RAUTFM and do/use what it says. Substitute materials and processes at you own risk.

Thanks everyone for your input. I know the answer to my original question now.

Those diesel fumes can be hell Poor thing


Was curious if this coating can be clear coated with products such as offered by SPI ?

[Wind River]

Originally Posted by Three Sisters

Those diesel fumes can be hell Poor thing


Was curious if this coating can be clear coated with products such as offered by SPI ?

I am certainly not the one to be giving advice here, but this is from Awlgrips Application Guide:

"Do not clear coat over whites or pastels with Awlgrip, Awlcraft 2000 or Awlgrip HS systems. Each system has a clear available. For Awlgrip it is G3005 High Gloss Clear; for Awlgrip HS it is N3100 High Gloss Clear; for Awlcraft 2000 and Awlcraft SE it is F3029 High Gloss Clear. However, these products should only be used over dark colors or Awlcraft SE basecoats."

I don't know what coatings SPI sells, but I would take this from the guide:
"Do not clear coat......" and stop right there.

[Three Sisters]

Originally Posted by Wind River

I am certainly not the one to be giving advice here, but this is from Awlgrips Application Guide:

"Do not clear coat over whites or pastels with Awlgrip, Awlcraft 2000 or Awlgrip HS systems. Each system has a clear available. For Awlgrip it is G3005 High Gloss Clear; for Awlgrip HS it is N3100 High Gloss Clear; for Awlcraft 2000 and Awlcraft SE it is F3029 High Gloss Clear. However, these products should only be used over dark colors or Awlcraft SE basecoats."

I don't know what coatings SPI sells, but I would take this from the guide:
"Do not clear coat......" and stop right there.

AhhHaa. They make their own. A one stop shop paint system.

Surely the finished product will be nothing short of outstanding.

[sean9c]

Don't lose track of the fact that your original problem, fish eye, had nothing to do with you not applying 545. It was surface contamination. You can 545 if you want but if you do the same prep as you did the first time you'll get the same result.
Interesting to think about primers like 545. They are epoxy based, so epoxy resin that is then adulterated with pigment, talc (to make it easier to sand) and thinners to make it flow. WS is epoxy resin that has not been adulterated with anything.
One thing that will be nice in using the 545 is that it will give you a nice one color surface to top coat over. The white LP is pretty transparent.
Going to disagree with the Awlgrip rep a little. The adhesion of LP to properly prepped surface is tenacious. What is weird about all the LP's that I've used and it doesn't matter if it's over their primer or not, is that when applying by brush it's like it doesn't want to stick to the surface. You can thoroughly brush out an area, be 100% sure you have coverage, then end up with a little holiday where the paint just didn't leave the brush onto the surface. Brush over it again and it's no problem. A weird and frustrating thing.
Good luck, it'll go fine this time

[s/v Jedi]

I agree that it was contamination. After West System, I clean it with a Scotchpad with water, dulling everything while scrubbing the amine blush off. Then when needed I sand it more with longboard and wash with water. At that point I treat it the same as 545. Do not touch it, do not use anything that can contaminate it, no compressed air, no acetone. I do use T0008 but only if there has been too much time in between or I suspect contamination. I use tack cloths from Awlgrip. Clean the roller and brush. The roller I clean with 3M blue tape, the brush with brushing reducer.


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[Wind River]

I do intend to use the 545 primer, if for nothing else, I can say I did everything by the book. If it provides greater adhesion for the paint, bonus for me. I'm only out some time and money. I really don't want to do this again anytime in the near future.

One thing I forgot to mention. I asked the Awlgrip rep if the converter goes bad and he told me the exact opposite my paint salesman told me. The converter is good for about a year once opened, the paint stays good for much longer (although no time frame was given). He said if you want to make it last longer in storage, displace the air in the opened can with nitrogen and seal it really good. This a little more effort than I would like to do, so a new can of converter is on the list too and hopefully it will be gone when this project is done.

Thanks again for everyone that contributed here.

[Wind River]

....and mix again after induction time.

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