Why are outboards so unreliable?

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by scareygary

Thinwater,

Small engine mechanics tell me that it's because, mostly, we USE our cars, and the gas is going through them at a relatively rapid rate. The ethanol in a small engine becomes problematic when it SITS for long periods. If you ran your outboard for an hour or two every day, you'd likely not see problems, either.....

Tell your some engine mechanic to use a little Sta-Bil in his gas and it will be fine.

[Hugh17]

Originally Posted by Cliffhanger

I have lost count of the outboards I have owed over the years but they all had one thing in common, they were all totally unreliable pieces of s#!t. This weekend for example I anchored near a nice beach so took the dinghy with my near-new Mercury 6hp 4 stroke outboard. Was running fine then suddenly died...anyway, long story short I ended up spending half the day unsuccessfully trying to get the damn thing working properly. It would run for a while and then splutter or just stop. I did all the usual things, drained the carby, drained the tank. Replaced the fuel with fresh. As I left the anchorage there was another guy drifting in his dinghy trying to start the damn thing, so at least it isn't just me.

If cars were this unreliable, nobody would drive them.

The issue is ethanol in the fuel. Use only ethanol free fuel and most problems of “unreliability” are eliminated. It doesn’t hurt to use a dose of Seafoam in every tank of fuel also.
However, if you think they are pieces of s*%t why no quite buying them? There are some good electric alternatives.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by FoxIslander

I've had 2 outboards...both Hondas...one a 7.5 the other an 8HP. Both were absolutely reliable with the normal maint. Was only stranded once. The shear pin broke on the 7.5. As I was fishing the spare pin out of the cover I dropped it in the drink. That one was on me.

I didn't think they made them with shear pins anymore. I thought they had gone to hubs that broke loose and left you SOL A watertight jar with shear pins and cotter pins along with a pear if pliers was a standard.

[Shaneesprit]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

You've got it backwards. It wasn't "we removed lead so we need catalysts". It was "we want catalysts and they're not compatible with lead, so remove the lead". Also, early catalysts were a huge power and fuel economy penalty, but modern ones aren't after enough years of development. They do limit your ability to do some stuff like lean burn under light load, but that's a tradeoff regardless (slightly less fuel, less of some emissions, but more of other emissions).

No I don’t have it backwards- Lead protests started in the 1970s Catalysts were introduced in the 1990s maybe a couple of years before. In law 1992 from memory, but I can remember taking Catalytic converters off of a car and the MPG going from 22mpg to 30mpg, with the same driver in real world conditions and also the mighty XJ220 lost 70hp to its catalytic converters, that’s a hell of a lot of fuel.
and as you quite rightly stated, you can’t lean burn, putting engine technology back a decade. Reducing engine sizes and what would of been even better fuel economy lost. You can’t simply say that the new ones are better as the damage is done there is nothing to compare against, the engines are all designed to run with Catalyst rather than without.
My point was each time we jump on the latest thinking when what’s needed is a real long term and balanced view, taking into consideration the action and reaction. So if you’re going to stop something is the replacement actually better? Is the change so damaging that it’s not worth doing?
Is it better to drive an existing V8 for another 10 or 20 years or move to another car scraping one that has only just been made. What’s the mileage point that makes this balance tip
Is nuclear power the best way forward because remember if you’re pro EV your pro nuclear aren’t you? How else are you going to charge it? Realistically nuclear is the only EV charging solution have you considered that in your EV calculations?

I am neither for or against EV more what’s the right solution? I have to say I do not know, I like everyone else and every company out there can only see what’s right for me / them.
PS I am pro EV in cities where replacing the diesel fumes is a must, not pro EV on environmental terms just yet, it’s a good way of driving the economy, more activity always produces more carbon.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Hugh17

The issue is ethanol in the fuel. Use only ethanol free fuel and most problems of “unreliability” are eliminated. It doesn’t hurt to use a dose of Seafoam in every tank of fuel also.
However, if you think they are pieces of s*%t why no quite buying them? There are some good electric alternatives.

No need to use ethanol free fuel in an engine with an owners manual which says to use 87 octane 10% ethanol.

Just use a bit of Sta-Bil in your gas if you plan to let the engine and gas sit for a few weeks.

Folks have to realize it's not your Dad's (or Grandad's) gas and you have to do things slightly different to get the best performance.

Video is of my 10 year old Mercury 5 HP 4 stroke bought new in 2011.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpZhq35etcw

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Shaneesprit

No I don’t have it backwards- Lead protests started in the 1970s Catalysts were introduced in the 1990s maybe a couple of years before.

Sorry, catalytic converters appeared around 1975. The only (patentable) way car manufacturers could meet new US EPA guidelines was by using catalytic converters.

Ultimately, what finally stopped lead wasn’t a direct regulation against it, but a side effect of an unrelated rule. Scientists determined that smog was created by auto emissions such as nitrogen oxides, hydrocarbons, and carbon monoxide. The [US] EPA passed regulations requiring automakers to clean up their tailpipes.

The car companies came up with several ideas, but one of the most effective was the catalytic converter, which started appearing on cars in 1975. The main drawback was that this expensive component could be irreparably damaged by lead.

With that opening, the EPA passed new rules. Lead content was reduced by 90 percent in the US as of January 1, 1986, and ten years later, leaded gas was completely banned for on-road vehicles. Canada phased out leaded gasoline in 1990, although a controversial amendment allowed it to be used in race cars right up until 2010.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Shaneesprit

No I don’t have it backwards- Lead protests started in the 1970s Catalysts were introduced in the 1990s maybe a couple of years before. In law 1992 from memory,...

Shaneesprit, Catalytic converters for cars and other internal combustion engines (including lean-burn engines, specifically) were introduced in 1975 in the US to reduce toxic gases and pollutants in exhaust gas. Lead free gasoline was required to prevent lead from coating the catalyst.

[admiralslater]

2003 yamaha 9.9s never taken out of the boat , oil change once a year . I always by myfuel at the marina as it is ethanol free. They still run perfectly.

[Michael53]

I had two outboards that seemed to fail just at the wrong moment - both new. I ended up going electric and life is much happier.

[thinwater]

Yes, catalysts started in 75'. I had one.


Yes, lead was an issue separate from catalysts. Among other things, several studies showed conclusively that lead emissions were causing developmental problems in urban areas. Lead is a non-threshold toxin; any amount is bad, without lower bound. Puting lead in the air was going to stop either way.



Both are true. Lead just had to go. Paint, pipes, plumbing solder, and other applications. Good thing.


Way off thread. But I think some people either forget, or never experienced, the Baltimore tunnel (for example) in the 70s. The air was flat out horrible and CO was too high for employees to spend time in the tubes. Everyone rolled their windows up, even if it was 95F and you had no AC.


---


I'm no fan of e10. I just think time is better spent learning to use it than screaming at the night. Move on.

[Hugh17]

Originally Posted by thomm225

No need to use ethanol free fuel in an engine with an owners manual which says to use 87 octane 10% ethanol.

Just use a bit of Sta-Bil in your gas if you plan to let the engine and gas sit for a few weeks.

Folks have to realize it's not your Dad's (or Grandad's) gas and you have to do things slightly different to get the best performance.

Video is of my 10 year old Mercury 5 HP 4 stroke bought new in 2011.

I’m all due respect you have it wrong. But don’t take my word for it. I’m not a mechanic. Perhaps this will convince you.

“ "Ethanol has inherent properties that can cause corrosion of metal parts, including carburetors, degradation of plastic and rubber components, harder starting, and reduced engine life," says Marv Klowak, global vice president of research and development for Briggs & Stratton, the largest manufacturer of small engines.Mar 22, 2013”

[Shaneesprit]

Originally Posted by wingssail

Shaneesprit, Catalytic converters for cars and other internal combustion engines (including lean-burn engines, specifically) were introduced in 1975 in the US to reduce toxic gases and pollutants in exhaust gas. Lead free gasoline was required to prevent lead from coating the catalyst.

Wasn’t lead banned in Japan in 1972.
In the UK Catalyst introduced 1987 first one on a Japanese car, first one I saw was 1990 - and in 1992 Law introduced to make the Catalytic compulsory.
The reason for the Catalytic introduction here was Acid Rain in Europe, of course back in the 1980s & 1990s CO2 was completely harmless, hence my thought on needing a longer term view by scientists not governments who need votes.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by FransD

... 2 we in Holland use a special petrol for the 2 stroke and 4 stroke. You can buy it ready for use in 2 stroke and 4 str as well. We call that petrol "Aspen"
we buy it at garden shops because they use is in gardens in all kind of petrol machines with the same problems.
You can leave it in the tank, in the cab. She will start all season even the next season.
It cost probably 50% more but it will cost far less troubles and maintenance cost...

Aspen alkylate petrol is virtually free from substances such as: ethanol, sulphur, benzene, aromatic hydrocarbons, or olefins.
➥ https://aspenfuel.co.uk/find-out-mor...-Alkylate-Fuel

Aspen is ± 5 times the price of gasoline, in Canada.
Aspen Fuel Pricing in Canada [$1CAD ≈ $0.79USD]
Aspen 2 = $7.77/L when purchased 12 at a time
➥ https://www.barrssmallengines.ca/aspen-fuel
Yesterday’s average gasoline price, in Toronto, ON = $143.8/L [varied from $136.9/L up to $143.8/L]

[Seaward22]

Good suggestions on the fuel stabilizer. On the amount to use, I generally just go with the recommendations of the fuel engineer who developed the stabilizer. Had a sage mechanic tell me about the fuel stabilizer years ago. Use Sta-Bil brand, which seems to work.



I would also add that disconnecting the fuel line and running the fuel out probably also helps. I have a Nissan (Tohatsu) 6 hp, 4 stroke, 14" that I bought in 2004 and it reliably starts on the first pull every time. Only issues I have ever had with this motor is slow idle, takes some finesse and a few choice words at times but this engine has always had that problem. Change the fuel filter when I think of it, filter the fuel through a kidney stone filter (can-->tank), seasonally change the oils, and fresh water flush when in salt water. Warm start can be problematic if the throttle position isn't center but otherwise starts fine when warm.



Originally had Mercury outboard that also ran fine (back in the days of non-ethanol fuel) with just running the fuel out. On my lawn tractor, ~1995, I got tired of replacing the needle valve so I just put a fuel shut off on the fuel line and run the fuel out after use. No more issues with a rising oil level.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Just use a bit of Sta-Bil in your gas if you plan to let the engine and gas sit for a few weeks.

I appreciate your experience and success with using 10% ethanol gas with stabilizer. Thing is, my patterns of use require gas to last for months not weeks; I maybe use two 15L tankfuls a year in our sailboat's outboard (unless we're out cruising/travelling), the gas in our standby generator might sit for up to a year, lawnmower might need filling a couple of times a year (... small lawn), etc.

Maybe stabilized 10% ethanol gas will last that long. But I already know that ethanol-free gas WILL, because it's done so for years. Overkill... maybe. But dependable.