The case of the intermittent water cooling system

[brownoarsman]

The head has the same issue as the manifold; stuck on by a stud and a bolt (well just a stud now as the bolt sheared). There's some differing opinions on raw water vs fresh water cooling that I read on CF before buying the boat, where some thought that raw water was great as it kept things simple and possibly had less of a chance of routine overheating, and fresh water cooling only came about because "yanks wanted hot water."
My opinion, that's crap. It seems like the head gasket has allowed leaks onto the studs, corroding them in place. There wasn't really any indication that the gasket was bad, either, until it filled the cylinders. I shudder to think what everything will look like when I finally get the head off.


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[brownoarsman]

After four days of blow torching, sea foaming, pb blasting, and gentle tapping, the stuck stud sheared under only gentle pressure from a double locknut and looks pretty brittle. Head still firmly attached to block.
From reading online tutorials, it seems I have two choices: start using wedges to separate the block from the engine, which will almost certainly chip one or the other, potentially damaging it beyond repair.
Or, two, removing the remaining studs, and using my boom as a shop crane to try to pull the head off using the engine eye bolts.
Thoughts on either of the above approaches or other suggestions?


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[brownoarsman]

I guess I should also mention that there's no good place to wedge a pry bar, and there are no other connectors. I've been looking everywhere!


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[Terra Nova]

Perhaps I'm the only one that sees the need to remove the engine for overhaul?

[brownoarsman]

I see the need to remove the engine for replacement!
Sadly the first reply to every 5411 rebuild thread is just replace it. Rebuilding the old raw water cooled engines just doesn't seem worth it. I've been speaking with a beta dealer, but would rather get that work done in MD than in FL, and I really want to continue this cruise soon! If the engine is toast, I'll slap an outboard on the boat just in order to keep moving.
But, I won't know much until the head comes off; so, how would you get it off? Remove the engine? Is there anything that can be done with the engine out that can't be done with the engine in as far as getting the head off?


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[DeepFrz]

If you don't want to have the work done in FL and you want to get cruising then slap on an outboard and get cruising. Do the other work later.

[Terra Nova]

To me, an outboard is a poor choice for that size boat.

It should be self evident that working on a boat engine is much easier with it out of the boat, especially a sailboat, and particularly when it comes to attacking it with long pry-bars.

[DeepFrz]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

To me, an outboard is a poor choice for that size boat.

It should be self evident that working on a boat engine is much easier with it out of the boat, especially a sailboat, and particularly when it comes to attacking it with long pry-bars.

I agree but Brown has been held up now for what; a month? He has an old engine that isn't likely to ever run again and he wants to get moving on. An outboard is at least a means of propulsion and certainly not the first boat of that size to have one.

[Shawn67]

Another option, turn off the fuel and disconnect the fuel lines to the injectors. Then crank over the engine and see if the compression can break the head free.

Shawn


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[DeepFrz]

Originally Posted by Shawn67

Another option, turn off the fuel and disconnect the fuel lines to the injectors. Then crank over the engine and see if the compression can break the head free.

Shawn


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Great idea. Why didn't I think of that...

[brownoarsman]

Sorry, I should have been more clear. The only place I can wedge the pry bar is between the timing case and the alternator bracket (attached to the head). Every other line of the head/block is too tight to work a prybar into. I can't pry too hard at this intersection because the timing case is delicate. That won't change with the engine out.
So, would you wedge, block, or something else?
I also agree that an outboard isn't great. The 28-1's transom hangs off the water, the rudder comes all the way to the end of the transom, and the transom itself is very tall, making it difficult to operate a manual installation. I'm trying to find other 28-1's that have gone this route, but sadly our yahoo group appears to have disappeared.


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[Terra Nova]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

...Brown has been held up now for what; a month?...

A month was long enough to replace the whole motor. So I cannot allow you to use that as an excuse to switch to a less safe gas outboard.

Anyway, he learned something about neglected boat engines and getting by on a zero-$ budget. Plus we all had a month's entertainment, and possibly averted an engine room fire (gas-soaked rag).

[brownoarsman]

Shawn-thanks for that-I had read about that approach on a farm tractor forum.
One question about it: while I had cleaned and degreased the surfaces as best I could before the mechanic and I took the head off, bits of chipped paint and probably some other stuff did fall into the injector holes during the removal process. The mechanic and I weren't worried about this because we were taking the head off anyways and figured we'd just clean out the cylinders once the head was off.
Would turning the head over with this crap on top of the piston do further damage to the engine? I know the online tutorials make a point of being religiously clean during the injector removal process. Thanks!

P.s. Thanks for remembering freeze-I just had my 5 week-aversary here. It would have been a very sad occasion save for the other cruisers who have been super friendly. Cruising friends wherever we go, right?



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[brownoarsman]

I guess I can always shop vac the piston surface through the injector hole, so maybe not as big a deal as I thought.


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[Shawn67]

At this moment the engine is dead. Your gonna need to get that head off to fix the snapped bolts so I'd try the compression trick even if a little paint chips fall in. They likely won't do any damage. If larger particles fell in then maybe not try it.

BTW, for your earlier question on intermittent water you probably have chunks of rust inside the system that are moving around. Sometimes blocking a passage, other times not.

I just went through all of this on a raw water Volvo MD7A. It was overheating last season. I pulled the exhaust manifold off and it was completely blocked from flowing water. The amount of gunk/rust I've pulled out of it is amazing (boiled it, multiple day baths in citric acid) and it is still barely flowing water. I ended using an exhaust manifold of a spare engine that also had a bunch of gunk in it but eventually cleaned up and flowed well.

After getting that all back together I converted to fresh water cooling to hopefully avoid all this in the future.

BTW, my backup plan was the same as yours... outboard if the inboard was dead. Was likely going with a Tohatsu 9.8hp and tie its controls into the pedestal controls.

Shawn