Re-power

[skipperpete]

Originally Posted by Tommee

Thank you all for your invaluable comments. I am certainly anxious about re-powering for many reasons as well as the astronomical cost. Seems like NZ$60k. They know how to charge in this Country!!!
I have owned her & lived on her for 33 yrs & do most maintenance myself where possible, hence I don't want anything Turbo or complicated. Being "old school" I certainly believe the old engines are the best & most reliable. I like simple. The BMW pushes her along at 6kts at 1800rpm & uses 3 liters per hr. It is quiet which many of these marinised engines aren't. Marinised Fords are popular here but still sound like a tractor coming into the marina!!

Why am I considering re-powering? This engine has now done close to 10,000 hrs. It is Aluminium & prone to corrosion which I try to stay on top of, but I see impending issues in some areas. It is smoking quite a bit, using/loosing oil & I suspect the valves are worn. Any parts are almost unavailable, I have found V12 in Vancouver & Navalis in Germany, both have some parts & seem to now be making parts. However this is all at high cost of product & even higher cost of shipping down here to NZ. Most engineers grumble about the engine, (they are uncommon here), shake their heads & don't want to work on it when I can't. Most advice is "stop throwing good money after bad". Nannis have been suggested, but the larger ones are Turbo charged. Kubotas have been suggested too. Yanmar seem very popular but usually in much lighter boats like Beneteaus. Maybe after listening to your comments I should re-think. If I could find a reliable engineer to put some work into it....I would never tackle the technical stuff myself...I would be overjoyed. However, they are like hens teeth around here. Will keep looking. Thank you all again.

All perfectly good and understandable reasons to re power. Betamarine will supply an engine that will match the footprint of your BMW but avoid the Technodrive gearbox option…. How many hours are on your old Hurth 3:1? Maybe just go for the bobtail option with the matching footprint and re use the ZF Hurth. I really like Yanmars and I’m not concerned at all by turbo’s ….. common rail not so much but very soon it won’t be possible to get anything else.

[stormalong]

If you are mechanically savvy you can do it yourself.

I replaced a Perkins 4-108 with a Beta 50 (Kubota v2203) myself in 2003. If you plan the work and break it down to it's individual tasks it is not overwhelming.

As skipperpete sort of said Beta can do custom brackets to make installation far easier. This saves a huge amount of time - no need to modify the engine beds.

Back to doing the job.

Think of it a multiple projects.

Number one is carefully measuring your existing installation and deciding if your desired engine will fit the space. Next is measuring the position and angle of the transmission output flange relative to the engine beds and ordering both the engine and custom brackets (if you go with Beta).

Now the fun begins. Remove the old engine. Start with removing the electrical, fuel, raw water connection and exhaust systems. Then get the boat yard or whoever to lift out the old engine.

Clean and paint the engine space. You will never have access this easy with an engine in place. Once the new engine arrives confirm the engine mount locations match the plan. In my situation two of the engine mounts were in the original position and two needed relocating. That was known and planned for in advance. Drill for new positions if needed and plug & paint over the old unused holes.

Attach the engine mounts to the engine beds loosely and get the new engine craned in. Next step is to do an engine alignment to confirm that the position is good. If you planning was good you should only have to crane in the engine once. I had to add spacers under two of the engine mounts to get the engine brackets lower down on the engine mount posts, This was done without craning the engine in and out. Once the alignment is good the hard work is over.

Now it is just getting the exhaust, raw water supply, fuel and electrical connected.

If you look at each of these as a separate project it gets much easier. I did all of this in one week. I had time constraints but if you have the time take your time. I also spent a huge amount of time planning the job so I had the materials and tools I needed ready before beginning.

The old engine was pulled on a Friday. The weekend was dedicated to cleaning and painting and the new engine was craned in the following Monday morning. The first engine start was on Wednesday.

I still have the boat and the same engine. Still happy with the install.

PS. I would stay away from Yanmar. They will only certify the warranty if a Yanmar approved mechanic did the install. They do not like DIYers and you can't even change your own oil without voiding the warranty.

[mcon12000]

Having recently re-powered a 38’ boat I would just say that you should expect to replace literally everything with the exception of the prop shaft.

Beta can build custom mounts BUT it’s often easier to simply adjust the existing engine beds it’s a toss up. In my application going from a Perkins 4108 to Beta 38 I modified the engine beds.

Beta will warranty a self install Yanmar will require a certified tech however after completing this task myself I’d say it’s a wash and the professional install will save you loads of time.

There’s lots of hidden costs just like any other boat project and if you want to have a worry free install other than required maintenance expect to spend another $5-8k over the cost of the engine itself. My prop alone was $3k blah blah..

Your thinking is solid though because at 40 your current motor even if it’s rebuildable will have external parts that are likely not available anymore.

[stormalong]

Originally Posted by mcon12000

Beta can build custom mounts BUT it’s often easier to simply adjust the existing engine beds it’s a toss up. In my application going from a Perkins 4108 to Beta 38 I modified the engine beds.

Beta will warranty a self install Yanmar will require a certified tech however after completing this task myself I’d say it’s a wash and the professional install will save you loads of time.

Of course a professional install will save you a lot of time BUT it will cost you a lot of money.

When I did my engine replacement I was in England and needed a fast install. I did not have the luxury of time or home base facilities to do much customizing work on my own. The cost of the custom brackets was minuscule considering the time saved. If you have your boat on the hard over a winter that's great. I did the engine replacement in one week and that included two days off for an excursion to France via the Chunnel.

Going with Yanmar means they own you. Parts are expensive and have to be bought thru Yanmar's dealer network. You must get service from Yanmar authorized mechanics, etc. Beta marine tells you right up front which Kubota engine you have, they even give you the publication number of the Kubota service manual. I could, and have purchased service items off the shelf from farm equipment dealers all over the world.

Sure you can save a heap of time. Just turn your boat over to the dealer to do the whole job and write big checks. Or you can DIY it and have the knowledge of how it went in and how to work on it. If you have deep pockets and are sailing close to home that is certainly an option. I like my independence.

[mcon12000]

Originally Posted by stormalong

Of course a professional install will save you a lot of time BUT it will cost you a lot of money.

When I did my engine replacement I was in England and needed a fast install. I did not have the luxury of time or home base facilities to do much customizing work on my own. The cost of the custom brackets was minuscule considering the time saved. If you have your boat on the hard over a winter that's great. I did the engine replacement in one week and that included two days off for an excursion to France via the Chunnel.

Going with Yanmar means they own you. Parts are expensive and have to be bought thru Yanmar's dealer network. You must get service from Yanmar authorized mechanics, etc. Beta marine tells you right up front which Kubota engine you have, they even give you the publication number of the Kubota service manual. I could, and have purchased service items off the shelf from farm equipment dealers all over the world.

Sure you can save a heap of time. Just turn your boat over to the dealer to do the whole job and write big checks. Or you can DIY it and have the knowledge of how it went in and how to work on it. If you have deep pockets and are sailing close to home that is certainly an option. I like my independence.

It might be a geographical issue but my yard (Yanmar certified installer) quoted a price very close to what it cost me in time and materials. Also not advocating for either route it’s really up to the individual and his or her circumstances.

[stormalong]

Originally Posted by mcon12000

It might be a geographical issue but my yard (Yanmar certified installer) quoted a price very close to what it cost me in time and materials. Also not advocating for either route it’s really up to the individual and his or her circumstances.

mcon12000: Noting that you are in the US, so am I now actually, the price of Beta engines in the UK were significantly less than they are in the US. At that time Beta was a less known company and working directly through the factory, the managing director actually, gave me a pretty darn good discount.

I have noticed that the price on these engines via the US agent is more than double what I paid for my engine.

I can see why your local Yanmar dealer could have quoted you a very competitive price.

[VChild]

I had the same BMW engine as you in my Lord Nelson 41. I replaced it with a Beta 60 and it fit easily. The boat performs much better with the Beta. I actually upgraded my prop to a 24” four blade feathering MaxProp and the boat reaches hull speed quickly with rpm reaching the appropriate level. I’ve been very happy with it.

[Icarus]

Originally Posted by Tommee

I have a Hans Christian 43T ketch & am thinking about replacing the BMW D50-2 engine. At 41 years old it's getting tired!! I have been looking at the Yanmar 4JH57. Does anyone have any experience with this engine, would it be a good replacement?
Quiet One is 18 tons, long keel & I had wished for a larger engine but may not have room or $$$. The BMW has a Hurth gearbox with ratio 3:1 & has always been a low revving engine. Are the Yanmars too high revving for this heavy displacement? All comments much appreciated.

Rebuilding the D50 isn't an option?
Unless it has a cracked block or had some catastrophic breakage.
A lot cheaper than a new Yanmar ..

Pros
Same footprint
Same propeller, same gearbox
Will be running for another 20 years or more after a rebuild.
BTW what size propeller do you have with a 3:1 gearbox? 20x11?

Anyway, I just base my opinion on my personal experiences with older marine diesel engines I had rebuilt over the last 40 years or so.
Good luck...

[Waliver]

Originally Posted by Tommee

I have a Hans Christian 43T ketch & am thinking about replacing the BMW D50-2 engine. At 41 years old it's getting tired!! I have been looking at the Yanmar 4JH57. Does anyone have any experience with this engine, would it be a good replacement?
Quiet One is 18 tons, long keel & I had wished for a larger engine but may not have room or $$$. The BMW has a Hurth gearbox with ratio 3:1 & has always been a low revving engine. Are the Yanmars too high revving for this heavy displacement? All comments much appreciated.

I also have a D50/2, and wouldn’t part with it. Adams 45 ( steel ) Displacement 17.25 tons. Contact Rich Langtry from V12 Engineering Canada and check possibility of replacement with same engine or cost to have rebuilt in NZ by a reputable work shop.
This will be far cheaper and in my opinion better than changing and modifying engine bearers, exhaust, throttle and gear change, propeller, etc etc.
As a shipwright / mechanic of 30 yrs ( now retired ) I would strongly suggest you stay away from high revving Yanmars which were designed to conform to American pollution laws and not longevity.
If you want to go new I would have a good look at the Beta range. These are a very good engine. Kubota based, slower revving, ( 3000/3200 ) with all the advantages of higher gear ratio and larger, slower revving prop.
When it comes to parts pricing down the track, you’ll be streets ahead.
Cheers.

[Oceanride007]

Waliver, I sent you a personal message. I also have a good opinion about these Engines, I regard them as perhaps the finest small Diesel ever, so much development money went into them, but unfortunately BMW got themselves in a pickle during the 1990 slump, they had to go.
I believe many went to NZ in the sell off.

[skipperpete]

Well guys, if you’re in Australia and you like BMW’s there’s a D50 currently for sale on Gumtree, $AU 2,200 one that’s in running order and one not running…. As a spare.

[Sailorichiban]

Hello 👋,
Perhaps you should reconsider turbocharging.
Turbocharging offers high power from a much smaller package, of course this requires a power plant constructed of higher grade materials to provide durability.
In the beginning they were very different, now almost everything about them has changed. They are generally very durable compared to the past. Decades of experience in terms of design, metallurgy and manufacturing have resulted in durability comparable to or exceeding non turbo power plants.
Concerns about electronics and avoiding excessive complexity are well founded, but this is the world we live in, I believe we must adjust to the realities.
That said , turbochargers are mechanical devices, and not reliant on electronics .
They have relatively simple requirements; an adequate supply of clean air and lubricant. They tend to encourage clean combustion, and consequently reduce deposits of incompletely combusted fuel, which increases efficiency at the same time. Increased efficiency equals less fuel for the same amount of output.
Larger industrial power plants nowadays are almost always turbocharged, due to the large savings in terms of bulk, weight and efficiency. In lower power units these are not such important considerations, and the engine can be naturally aspirated and provided with larger fuel tanks.
The next time I have need of diesel power plants I will be looking for turbo charged units.
Best of luck to all !